女人们的谈话 Women Talking（2022）

of not knowing where we are going.
我们没有地图
We don’t have a map.
这太荒唐了
[Salome] That’s absurd.
不管我们在哪里
The only certainty we’ll know is uncertainty,
我们唯一能确定的就是这种不确定性
no matter where we are.
奈提雅? 奥提雅？
[Agata] Neitje? Autje?
你们有什么要补充到列表上的吗？
Do you have something to add to the list?
我们不必离开所爱之人
We won’t have to leave the people we love.
我们也可以带上他们
Well, we could bring our loved ones
一起离开
with us if we leave.
怎么做？
How?
那是什么意思？我们把整个聚落一起搬走？
What does that mean? That we move the whole colony?
那到底是什么意思？
What could that possibly mean?
我们可以尝试创造一种新秩序
[Agata] We could create the possibility of a new order
就在我们熟悉的这个地方
right here in a place that is familiar to us.
不仅仅是熟悉，这个地方属于我们
[Salome] Not simply familiar, but a place that is ours.
我们还需要写弊端吗？
[Mejal] Do we need to write the cons?
我们必须留下来战斗，这还不够明显吗？
Isn’t it obvious that we must stay and fight?
弊端，我们不会被原谅
Cons. We won’t be forgiven.
我能说几句吗？
May I say something?
请便
Please.
在我们列出
Would it be a good idea before we list
“留下来战斗”的利弊之前
the pros and cons of “staying and fighting”
我们不是最好先谈谈
to talk about exactly what it is
我们到底为什么而战？
we’re fighting for?
这很明显
[Salome] It’s obvious.
我们在为我们的安全而战
We are fighting for our safety
为了彻底摆脱袭击，获得自♥由♥
and for our freedom from attacks.
但那对我们意味着什么？
[Ona] But what would that mean to us?
也许我们需要一份声明
Perhaps we need a statement which describes
描述在赢得战斗后
what we want the colony to be like
我们想让聚落变成什么样
after winning the fight.
也许我们需要更多地了解
Perhaps we need to understand more
战斗的目标是什么
what it is we are fighting to achieve,
而不仅仅是我们要摧毁什么
not only what we are fighting to destroy.
-[groans] -[chuckles]
我们是留还是走？
Are we staying or are we going?
[laughing]
奥娜，再跟我们讲讲
Ona, please tell us more
你在考虑的那份声明
about the statement you’re thinking about.
男人和女人将集体地
Men and women would make
为所有聚落事务做决定
all decisions for the colony collectively.
女人将被允许独♥立♥思考
Women would be allowed to think.
女孩将被教导阅读和写作
Girls will be taught to read and to write.
校舍里必须展示一幅世界地图
The schoolhouse must display a map of the world
这样我们才能开始了解我们在其中的位置
so that we can begin to understand our place in it.
聚落的女人将创建一种新的宗教
A new religion, taken from the old
它取自旧宗教
but focused on love
但更着重于爱
would be created by the women of the colony.
我们的孩子将是安全的
Our children would be safe.
“集体地”
“Collectively.”
你听起来就像奥古斯特的妈妈
You sound like August’s mother.
[chuckles softly]
奥娜，你是个梦想家
Ona, you’re a dreamer.
我们是无法发声的女人
We’re women without a voice.
我们回不去了
We have nothing to return to.
动物在它们的家里
Even the animals are safer in their homes
也比我们这些女人更安全
than we women are.
我们所剩的只有我们的梦想
All we have are our dreams.
所以当然，我们是梦想家
So of course we are dreamers.
你想听听我的梦想吗？
And you want to hear my dream?
我梦想那些说胡话的人
I dream that people who speak nonsense,
把握不住现实的人
who have no grasp on reality,
不会被授予发表声明的责任
are not put in charge of making statements.
如果男人们拒绝满足我们的要求怎么办？
What if the men refuse to meet our demands?
-[Autje and Neitje giggling] -[bucket clanging]
对不起
Sorry.
我们就杀光他们
We’ll kill them.
不，奥娜
No, Ona.
[laughing]
如果那些监狱里的男人
What if the men who are in prison
是无罪的怎么办？
are not guilty?
[eerie music playing]
妈？
Mother?
奥提雅
[Mariche] Autje.
你为什么要问他们是不是…
Why are you asking if they’re…?
奥提雅，嘘
Autje, shush.
我们抓住了他们中的一个
We caught one of them.
[screaming]
我看见他了
I saw him.
但只有一个
[Mariche] But only one.
是只有一个，但他说了其他人的名字
[Salome] Yes, only one, but he named the others.
如果他是在撒谎呢？
But what if he was lying?
[eerie music stops]
我们必须考虑这种情况
We must consider this.
不！
No!
不！这不是我们的责任
No! That is not our responsibility
因为我们并不负责决定
because we aren’t in charge
他们是否受到惩罚
of whether or not they are punished.
我们知道，我们是被男人袭击的
We know that we’ve been attacked by men.
不是长♥期♥以来我们被引导相信的
Not by ghosts or Satan
什么鬼魂或者撒旦
as we were led to believe for so long.
我们知道，这些袭击不是我们凭空想象的
We know that we’ve not imagined these attacks.
我们是被牛的镇定剂弄昏的
That we were made unconscious with cow tranquilizer.
他们施加给我们的是淤伤，感染
We know that we are bruised, and infected,
怀孕，恐惧，精神错乱
and pregnant, and terrified, and insane,
我们中的一些人甚至已经死了
and some of us are dead.
我们知道我们必须保护自己的孩子
We know that we must protect our children.
不管到底谁有罪
Regardless of who is guilty.
好了，莎洛姆，谢谢，请坐吧
All right, Salome. Thank you. Please, sit down, hmm.
嗯
Hmm.
我们可以继续了吗
Shall we move on?
监狱里的人是有可能
It is possible the men in prison
并没有犯下袭击罪
are not guilty of the attacks,
但他们没有阻止袭击，这是否有罪？
but are they guilty of not stopping the attacks?
如果他们知道袭击的事
Are they guilty of knowing
但选择无所作为，这是否有罪？
about the attacks and doing nothing?
我们怎么知道他们到底有没有罪？
How should we know what they’re guilty of or not?
但我们确实知道
[Ona] But we do know.
我们知道，是男人创造了这些条件
We do know that the conditions have been created by men
而且是聚落的现状
and that these attacks have been made possible
让这些袭击成为可能
because of the circumstances of the colony.
而这种现状
And those circumstances
是由男人们创造并规定的
have been created and ordained by the men.
等等，你这不是在暗示
[Mariche] But wait, aren’t you suggesting
袭击者和被袭击者一样
that the attackers are as much victims
都是受害者吗？
as the victims of the attacks?
我们所有的人，男人和女人
That all of us, men and women
都是创造聚落的
are victims of the circumstances
大环境的受害者？
from which the colony has been created.
在某种意义上，是的
In a sense, yes.
因此，不论法庭裁定他们有罪或无罪
So then, even if the court finds them guilty or innocent,
他们也都是…
they are… [breathes shakily]
无辜的
after all innocent.
是的，我想是这样
Yes, I would say so.
-长老们说他们是恶魔 -并不是这样
-The elders called them evil. -[Ona] That’s not true.
最应该负责任的
It’s the elder’s quest for power
是长老们对权力的追求
that is responsible.
因为他们需要有那些…
Because they needed to have those…
他们可以控制的人
Those they’d have power over.
而那些人就是我们
And those people are us.
他们已经把权力的使用传授给了
[Agata] And they have taught the lesson of power
聚落的男孩和男人
to the boys and men of the colony,
而男孩和男人都是优秀的学生
and the boys and men have been excellent students.
我们不都想拥有某种权力吗？