孪生陌生人（2018）

但这项研究从未发表过
But this study was never published.
这使得它更加离奇
Which makes it all the more intriguing.
我们确实有一位律师
We did have an attorney
试着给我们找一些研究记录
try to get us some of the study records.
我们收到了少量信息
We received a small amount of information.
都是非常枯燥的技术数据
It was very dry, technical data,
并不能真正解释
that didn’t really shed any light
这项研究的原因 都是垃圾
on the reasons for the study. It was garbage.
我不知道结果是什么
I don’t know what the results were,
或者是否有结果 因为我从未见过
or if there ever were results because I never saw them.
他们试图隐瞒他们所做的事情
They’re trying to conceal what they did
对他们的研究对象
from the people they did it to.
为什么?
Why?
我是说 它的目的是什么?
I mean, what was the purpose of it?
这项研究从未发表过 为什么?
The study was never published. Why?
我叫娜塔莎·乔斯弗维茨…
My name is Natasha Josefowitz…
…我是彼得·纽鲍尔的研究助理
…and I was Peter Neubauer’s research assistant.
好了 请进 来杯咖啡吗?
So, come on in. Would you like a cup of coffee?
这是我的一些朋友
Here are some of my buddies.
米歇尔·奥巴马和我 她很高
Michelle Obama and I. She is very tall.
我就像她旁边的小虾
I’m like a little shrimp next to her,
我到她这里
I come up to her right here.
这是三年前的奥巴马
This is Obama three years ago,
他在这里拿着我最新的书
and here he is holding my latest book.
我必须告诉你 我说 “贝拉克 我爱你”
I have to tell you. I said, “Barack, I love you.”
他说 “我也爱你” 他在这个脸颊上吻了我一下
He said, “I love you too”, and he gave me a kiss on this cheek.
这是罗伯特·雷德福(导演、演员) 阿尔·戈尔(前副总统)
Yeah. This is Robert Redford and Al Gore,
这是我18岁的时候和埃罗尔·弗林(澳大利亚演员、编剧、导演、歌♥手)
and this is Errol Flynn and me when I was 18.
我认为他很风趣
I thought he was a hoot.
毕加索的
Picasso’s.
我们什么时候开始讨论双胞胎研究?
When are we gonna talk about the twin study?
你需要知道我不是团队的一员
You need to know I am not part of the team,
我是外♥围♥人 我只是道听途说
I am a peripheral person. I just do the hearsay.
我第一次听说双胞胎研究
The first time I heard about the twin study,
在彼得的头脑里 那还只是个梦想
it was still just a dream in Peter’s head.
他是个怎样的人?
What was he like?
嗯…性感 漂亮 有趣
Hmm… sexy, nice looking, interesting.
他的背景非常弗洛伊德
His background was very Freudian.
弗洛伊德的女儿安娜·弗洛伊德
Anna Freud, Freud’s daughter,
经常会来拜访他
would often come and visit with him.
他非常渴望在儿童生活领域有一番作为
He was very focused on wanting to make a difference in children’s lives.
彼得开始思考 那会不会很有趣
Peter started thinking, wouldn’t it be interesting
去研究愿意放弃自己的孩子母亲
to have a study of mothers who wanted to give up their children,
而且孩子恰好是同卵双胞胎
who happen to be identical twins
然后可以在出生后被分开?
and then could be separated at birth?
如果我们可以把他们放在两个完全不同的环境中
If we could put them in two totally different environments,
我们可能一劳永逸地解答
we would put to rest the dilemma,
“先天还是后天”的悖论
nature or nurture, forever.
现在你可能会想 “哦 这太可怕了”
Now you may think, “Oh, this is terrible, you know,
“你们怎么能这样做?”
“how could you do this?”
你必须让自己回到50年代末和60年代
You have to put yourself back in the late 50s and 60s.
这似乎不是什么很糟糕的事情
This was not something that seemed to be bad.
没有人说 “把孩子分开 多么可怕”
Nobody said, “To take children apart, how terrible.”
任何人不会有这样的想法
That was not at all in anyone’s thoughts.
那是一个令人非常兴奋的时期
This was a very exciting time.
心理学刚刚开始成为主流
Psychology was just beginning to be the big deal
每个人都在谈论
that everybody was talking about.
这完全是为了研究 是一个机会
This was all in terms of research. An opportunity.
科学界一直探讨的一个重大问题是
One of the great questions that science has ever asked
“我们是如何成为我们的”
is “How do we become the people we are,
“有多少先天因素 有多少后天因素”
“how much of nature versus how much of nurture
“才把我们塑造成我们?”
“shapes us into the people that we become?”
我没有参加研究
I did not go and do the research.
但我会听到它 因为我在办公室
But I would hear about it because I was in the office.
他们发现了什么 令人难以置信
What they found out, was incredible.
我们的生活惊人的相似
‘Our lives are parallel to a phenomenal degree.
太戏剧性了
‘It’s, it’s ridiculous.’
我们都一样
‘We’re all the same,
只要讨论到我们的个性
‘as soon as we started discussing our personalities.’
个性是一样的 我们的姿势是一样的
‘Personalities are the same, our gestures are the same.’
我们总是同时谈话
‘We always talk at the same time.’
你们是在不同家庭长大的吗?
‘You were raised in different homes?’
是的
‘True.’
我不相信它会具有那样的遗传性
I did not believe that it’d be as much hereditary as it was,
那超过了我们的想象
that was more than any of us thought.
我说开头 他能说结尾
‘I’ll start a sentence and he’ll finish it.’
我们都喜欢中国菜
‘We all like Chinese food.’
你们都曾是摔跤运动员吗?
‘You were all wrestlers at one time?’
是的
‘Yes.’
你们都抽烟了吗? – 是的
‘You all smoke cigarettes?’ – ‘Yes.’
你们都抽这一个牌子吗?
‘Do you all smoke the same brand?’
是的
‘Yes.’
你们喜欢一样的颜色吗? – 是的
‘Do you like the same colors?’ – ‘Yes.’
他们对女人的品味如何 那一样吗?
‘How’s their taste in women, is it similar?’
是的 当然
‘Yes. Definitely.’
我们感动于
We are moved to behaviors
毫无意识的行为
that we are totally unconscious about.
你们都是高中试♥卷♥的编辑
‘You were both editors of your high school paper,
你们两个都去了电影学院
‘you both went to film school.’
我不知道你是否注意到…
‘I don’t know if you noticed…’
我们的举止是继承的
‘Our mannerisms are inherited.’
这令人不安 我们不喜欢这样
It’s disturbing, we don’t like that.
人们不喜欢听这些 他们说“我有自♥由♥意志”
People don’t like to hear, they say, “I have free will.”
我们希望我们对生活产生一些影响
We would prefer that we have some influence over our lives.
你不想知道吗?
Wouldn’t you rather know that?
你有一些控制力
That you have some control over this
因此去寻找 不要介意 无论你做什么
and so finding out, never mind, doesn’t matter what you do.
所以 我认为令人沮丧
So, I think it’s upsetting to people
他们多么没产生什么影响
to see how little influence they have,
微乎其微的控制力
how little control they have.
我们不喜欢那样 我们会抗争
We don’t like that, we fight that.
如果研究结论令人震惊
If the conclusions of the study were so shocking
惊天动地
and so earth-shaking,
你为什么不发表你的研究?
why haven’t you published your study?
还有很多我们不知道的事情
There is a lot that we don’t know.
我们的轶事非常有挑战
We have anecdotes that are very provocative,
但我们不知道 我们没有那些数据
but we don’t know, we don’t have the data.
我不知道这项研究发生了什么
I don’t know what happened to the study.
我于1965年搬到瑞士
I moved to Switzerland in 1965
并且与当时发生的事失去联♥系♥
and lost touch with what was going on.
这项研究应该公开
All that research should be seen.
这项研究是第一次 也是最后一次
This study was the first, and it’s also the last,
永远不会再做 它永远不会被复♥制♥
it will never be done again, it will never be replicated.
它是不朽的 它是一项不朽的研究
It’s monumental, it’s a monumental study.
以他们的动机
In terms of the motivation that they used
来评判他们的所作所为
to justify what they did,
我根本不在乎 因为 我…
I don’t even care because, I…
他们的所作所为不合理
It’s not justifiable what they did.
你知道吗?
You know what?
逃过了大屠♥杀♥
Coming from the Holocaust,
我们的家族深知
our family has a knowledge
玩弄人类…
that when you play with humans…
…是非常错误的
…you do something very wrong.
而且我深信因为这项研究
And I really believe that because of this research,
这三个男孩没有幸福的结局
these three boys did not have happy endings.
你们在成长的过程中
‘What were some of the similarities
在各自的家庭里
‘you found that you had as you were all growing up
有没有发现什么相似之处?
‘in your own respective households?’
我们见面时 抽同样的香烟
‘We all smoked the same cigarettes when we met,
我们都在初中和高中练摔跤
‘we all wrestled in high school and junior high,