你觉得我们刚刚听到的东西怎么样
What do you make of what we’ve just been listening to?
非常棒
It’s pretty awesome.
我是说 其中蕴含着很强大的无调性张力
I mean, there’s incredible atonal tension.
我同意张力的部分
I agree about the tension part.
对于“无调性”一词的精妙之处
Now, you can intellectually contemplate, or masturbate,
一个人可以运用智慧思索 或是对着它手♥淫♥
about the felicity of the so-called “atonal,”
但在此更重要的问题是 你在指挥什么
but the important question here is: What are you conducting?
你得到了什么效果
What is the effect?
它对我又有什么样的影响
What is it actually doing to me?
好的音乐既可以如教堂一般雕梁画栋
Good music can be as ornate as a cathedral
也可以像盆栽棚一样赤♥裸♥粗粝
or bare as a potting shed
只要它能让你回答这两个问题
so long as it allows you to answer both those questions.
麦克斯
Max.
说说 你怎么想
Come on, what do you think?
当安娜·索弗思塔提亚来上大♥师♥课的时候
When… Anna Thorvaldsdóttir gave her master class,
她说她常常为她生长地的景观与自然的形式
she said she was often influenced by the form
和结构所影响
and structure of landscapes and nature she grew up within.
不过我不确定她自身是不是
But I’m not sure she was interested per se
对描述那些真实的声音也很有兴趣
in, uh, describing those actual sounds.
非常的二元对立
Very Punkt Kontra Punkt.
对
Yes.
她的创作意图是 模糊的 至少可以说
The intent of her composition is vague, to say the least.
所以 如果她的意图是模糊的 那作为指挥的你们
So, if her intent is vague, how do you, as a conductor,
怎么才能做到对作品的任意一处洞若观火呢
have a point of view about anything?
说句公道话
Now, to be fair, I mean,
总有那么些时候 你纯粹别无选择
there are times when you will simply have no choice.
你不得不站在乐团面前
And you will be made to stand in front of an orchestra
假装那些无形的结构确实存在
and pretend that there are these invisible structures.
但我衷心祝愿你们
But my prayer for you
可以不必承受那种尴尬
is that you will be spared the embarrassment
站在指挥台上 面前是4’33″的谱子
of standing on the podium with a 4’33”,
*4’33”: 是由美国试验作曲家约翰凯奇创作的一首三章节作品
指示表演者在整整三章节中不演奏任何乐曲
仅由观众当时所听到的环境音构成
所以常常被理解为四分三十三秒静默
试图推销出一量没有引擎的汽车
trying to sell a car without an engine.
因为现在 朋友们
Because now, my friends,
现在是指挥那些会向你索求的音乐的时代
now is the time to conduct music that actually requires something of you.
是那些虽然家喻户晓
You know,music that everybody knows
但会因你的演绎变而不同的音乐
but will hear differently when you interpret it for them.
打个比方 麦克斯 为什么不选首 垂怜经
For instance, Max,why not a Kyrie?
Kyrie：罗马天主教和希腊东正教弥撒中的祷词音乐
比如 像是巴♥赫♥的B小调弥撒
You know, like, uh, something like Bach’s Mass in B minor.
我对巴♥赫♥不怎么感兴趣
I’m not really into Bach.
你对巴♥赫♥不感兴趣?
You’re not into Bach?-Mm-hmm.
天啊 麦克斯
Oh, Max.
你读过施韦泽的《论巴♥赫♥》吗
Have you read the Schweitzer book?
没有
No.
你该读一读
Well, you should.
那是则很重要的文本
It’s an important text.
安东尼娅布里克也这么觉得
Now, Antonia Brico thought so.
Antonia Brico：知名荷兰女指挥家及钢琴家
她认同到把自己送到了赤道非洲
So much so that she shipped herself to Equatorial Africa
划着一叶扁舟沿刚果河而上找到施韦泽
and canoed up the Congo River to track Schweitzer down
请他将关于巴♥赫♥的所知倾囊相授
and ask him to teach her what he knew about Bach.
我记得我在哪儿 有张她的照片
I mean, somewhere,I’ve got a picture of her
戴着顶木髓盔
in a, in a pith helmet.
你有没有
I mean, have you…
有没有演奏过 或者指挥过一次巴♥赫♥
have you ever played or-or conducted Bach?
说实话 身为有色人种 和泛性别人
Honestly, as a BIPOC, pangender person
巴♥赫♥的厌女生平
I would say Bach’s misogynistic life
几乎不可能让我认真对待他的音乐
makes it kind of impossible for me to take his music seriously.
说说
Come on.
你是 想说明什么
What do… what do…what do you mean by that?
他不是生了有 20个孩子吗
Well, didn’t he sire,like, 20 kids?
对 这有记录
Yes, that’s documented.
同时还留下了大量的音乐
Along with a considerable amount of music.
但抱歉我 我不是很明白
But I’m sorry, I’m… I’m unclear
他在婚床上的惊人能力
as to what his prodigious skills in the marital bed
和他的B小调有什么关系
have to do with B minor.
好吧
Sure.
算了 这是 你的选择就这样了
All right, whatever. That’s-that’s your choice.
a soul selects her own society：
出自美国诗歌♥史上最杰出人物之一艾米丽狄金森的《灵魂选择自己的侣伴》
毕竟 “灵魂选择自己的侣伴”
I mean, after all, “a soul selects her own society.”
但记住 这选择的另一面是
But remember, the flip side of that selection
“紧闭她的心房♥”
closes the valves of one’s attention.
这是诗歌♥的下一句；原诗意在表达爱情的排他性
当然 分隔出什么是可被接受的
Now, of course,siloing what is acceptable
或什么不可接受 是当今许多交响乐团
or not acceptable is a basic construct of many,
即使不是大多数 的基本理念
if not most,symphony orchestras today,
这种为了傻子们的选择性演奏
who see it as their imperial right
被视为无上的权力
to curate for the cretins.
所以 虽然很难明确
So, slippery as it is,
检视麦克斯这种过敏症状还是有价值的
there is some merit in examining Max’s allergy.
由一群奥匈帝国或德国背景
Can classical music written by a bunch of straight,
会去教堂的白人直男所创作的音乐 可否撼动我们的情绪？
Austro-German, church going white guys exalt us,
不论是个人的体验上 还是集体的感受
individually as-as well as collectively,
且恕我问一句 又有谁 有资格决定这一点呢？
and who, may I ask, gets to decide that?
那贝多芬呢
(sighs)You know, what about Beethoven?
你对他感兴趣不
You into him?
因为从我这个 “着急”的女同性恋的角度看
Because for me,as a U-Haul lesbian,
U-Haul lesbian：一种对女同性恋群体的刻板印象
指觉得女同性恋会在第二次约会时就想立刻同居
我对 老路德维希的性别偏见有所疑虑
I’m… I’m not too sure about old Ludwig.
Ludwig: 贝多芬的名字
但之后 我面对他
But then, I face him.
我发现自己与他的气贯长虹唯我独尊之势如此接近
And I find myself nose-to-nose with his magnitude and inevitability.
来 麦克斯 请允许我
Come on, Max. Indulge me.
让我们以同样的眼光来审视一番巴♥赫♥
Let’s allow Bach a similar gaze.
（演奏巴♥赫♥《C大调前奏曲与赋格,作品846》）
坐
Sit.
现在 这些都是花哨的琶音 对吧
Now, this is all filigree, right?
一年级的钢琴学生也能弹
I mean, it could be a first-year piano student.
♪ 或是谢勒德正弹奏给露西 ♪
♪ Or Schroeder playing for Lucy.
Schroeder playing for Lucy：以史努比为主角的《花生漫画》中的角色
整天在弹玩具钢琴的谢勒德很仰慕贝多芬
抑或是格连古尔德 就此而言
Or Glenn Gould, for that matter.
Glenn Gould：格伦·赫伯特·古尔德 加拿大钢琴家, 以演绎巴♥赫♥的键盘作品而闻名
直到音乐发生了变化
Now, it’s not until it changes…
你开始进入它的内里
… when you get inside it,
听见它真正的本质
that you hear what it really is.
是一句疑问
It’s a question.
和一个回答
And an answer.
乞求着另一个疑问
Which begs another question.
巴♥赫♥身上有一种谦逊
There’s a humility in Bach.
他并非在假装自己无所不知
He’s not pretending he’s certain about anything.
因为他明白 永远只有疑问才能打动听众
‘Cause he knows that it’s always the question that involves the listener.
而不会是回答 对吗
It’s never the answer, right?
现在 抛给你的最重要的问题是
Now, the big question for you is:
你怎么想 麦克斯
What do you think, Max?
你弹得真的很好
You play really well.
但当下 白人 男性 顺性别作曲家单纯不是我的兴趣所在
But nowadays, white, male, cis composers, just not my thing.
别那么 急着被冒犯
Don’t be so eager to be offended.
面对细微差异时的自我陶醉
The narcissism of small differences
会导致最为无聊的一致
leads to the most boring conformity.
我觉得埃德加瓦雷兹还可以
I guess Edgard Varèse is okay.
我是说 我还挺喜欢《奥秘》的
I mean, I like “Arcana,” anyway.
Arcana：指法国作曲家埃德加·瓦雷塞为大型交响乐团创作的交响诗
那你一定知道瓦雷兹
Oh, well, then you must be aware that Varèse
Edgard Varèse：埃德加·维克多·阿西尔·夏尔·瓦雷兹，法裔美国人, 作曲家
曾有段著名发言 说爵士
once famously stated that jazz
是“一种被犹太人剥削的黑鬼产物”
was “a Negro product exploited by the Jews.”
也没让杰瑞高史密斯在他《人猿星球》的配乐里
Didn’t stop Jerry Goldsmith from ripping him off
Jerry Goldsmith：杰里·戈德史密斯 美国著名电影配乐作曲家
给《人猿星球》作的配乐听起来非常像瓦雷兹的大型管弦乐作品, 特别是《奥秘》
因此而不盗用埃德加的音乐
for hisPlanet of the Apes score.
像是个完美的侮辱 不觉得吗
It’s kind of a perfect insult, don’t you think?
但你们懂吗
But you see
将自己置于超音速认知层面而唱反调的位置
