But you can’t forget
现实有三个要素
there are three aspects of reality.
痛苦永远不会消失 不确定性永远不会消失
The pain will never go away. Uncertainty will never go away.
你也永远摆脱不了不间断努力的需要
And there’s no getting away from the need for constant work.
无论如何 每个人都必须这样生活
Everybody has to live like that, no matter what.
在遇见你之前 我是个极度缺乏安全感的孩子
Before I met you, I’m this, like, wildly insecure kid,
我以为成功和奖项 能让我摆脱生活的痛苦
and then, uh, I think
success and awards will absolve me of the pain of life.
所以我拼命努力想达到那个快照
So I work so hard to get to that Snapshot,
因为我的有利条件和运气
and because of my privilege and luck,
我很早就成功进入了那个快照
I got to go into that Snapshot relatively early,
但当我发现这并没有治愈我的创伤时
and when it didn’t cure any of that stuff,
我感到前所未有的抑郁
it made me beyond depressed.
是
Yes.
与此同时
At the same time, the media kept kind of like being really brutal
媒体一直拿我的体重做文章
让任何人都能无所顾忌地
about my weight.
It was just kind of free game for anyone to sort of…hit my sore spot.
戳我的痛点
我的防备心变得很重
It made me so defensive.
几乎就像人们一开口就是要批评我
Like almost anticipating someone saying something mean.
我时时刻刻都很生气
And I’d be so angry.
它让我觉得
[Stutz] Mm-hmm.
It kept me from feeling any sense of, like,
我永远无法放下对自己的负面感受
able to grow past negative feelings about myself
让我对阴影面感到更加羞耻
and made me more ashamed of my Shadow.
直到最近我在30多岁时遇见了你
And it wasn’t until more recently, my thirties, when I met you,
我才学会采取措施 将这种感觉排除在外
that’s when I learned to take steps towards locking that out
并形成自己的自我看法
or forming my own opinion of self.
说得通吗？
Does that make sense?
明白吧？
-You know? -[chews]
等一下 你是在嚼东西吗？
Here, wait, let’s– Are you chewing on something?
对啊
Yeah.
-[laughs] -[man talks indistinctly]
我们在拍电影诶 老兄
We’re making a movie, dude!
[both laugh]
你邀请我来之前应该先通知我的
You should’ve told me that before you invited me.
这家伙竟然在吃巧克力
He’s fucking eating chocolate! You have any calls you wanna take?
你需不需要去接个电♥话♥啊？
需要 但先把这事解决了
[laughs] I do, but let’s see how this goes.
[laughing] Um…
不好意思 我看一下笔记
Sorry, I’m checking my notes real quick.
那只是…
[Stutz] That’s just–
我刚刚写了我上过你妈 把它划掉就行
I just wrote down about I banged your mother. Just cross it out.
[laughs]
这个笑话的讽刺之处是 我妈妈明天会来这里
The irony of the banging your mom joke is my mom is coming here tomorrow,
你和我还有我妈妈 要一起进行一场对话
and we literally are gonna do a session with you, me, and my mom.
-你糊弄我的吧？ -我是认真的
-Get the fuck out. -[Jonah] I’m not even kidding.
那你别告诉她我说…
Well, don’t tell her I…
我肯定会告诉她
-No, I’m gonna tell her. -[Stutz laughs]
Um…
-好 -嗨
-[Jonah] Okay. -Hi.
-各位好 -这颜色很适合你
-Hi, guys. -I like that color on you.
-谢谢 -对 你看起来很棒
-Thank you. -You look nice.
谢谢
Thank you.
这是我妈妈莎伦
This is my mom, Sharon.
-莎伦你好 我是菲尔 -幸会
-Sharon, hi. I’m Phil. -Nice to meet you.
很高兴认识你
Great to meet you.
很高兴认识你
Great to meet you.
嗯 我不知道
Yeah, so I don’t know.
我在想我第一次接受治疗的经历
I was thinking about my first experience with therapy.
当时我们在营养师的办公室
We were at a nutritionist’s office,
我们吵得很厉害 以至于营养师说
and we were arguing so much that the nutritionist said,
-“你们应该去看心理医生” -没错
-“You guys should go see a therapist.” -100% correct.
医生说我应该减肥
The doctor was like, “Jonah should lose weight,”
所以作为妈妈 你觉得应该听医生的话
and so you were like, as a mom, “Shit, I should listen to the doctor
带我去看营养师
and take him to a nutritionist.”
说实话 我并不需要他来告诉我
To be perfectly honest, I would say I didn’t need him to tell me.
我应该看出来你应该减肥
I maybe might have thought that you should lose some weight.
我不想提过去 但有时候你不得不回到过去
And I kinda don’t want to go to the past, but you have to go to the past sometimes,
我妈妈非常瘦小 我姐姐也是如此
because my mother specifically was extremely small, and so was my sister,
而我总是被人说 “你和你♥爸♥爸一样胖
and I was always talked to about, “You’re big like your dad.”
你是胖的那个 你需要减肥”
“You’re the bigger one. You need to lose weight.”
当我自己或我的孩子 不符合那种标准的时候
And I think it gave me so much anxiety
when either I didn’t look that way or my kids didn’t look that way
我就会感到非常焦虑
所以我没有去考虑我在做什么
that, I feel like, instead of thinking about what I was doing,
而只是做了我认为是正确的事
I was just doing what I thought was right.
这样讲说得通吗？
-[Stutz] Mm-hmm. -If that makes sense.
是 我并没有要攻击你的意思
Yeah, I’m not like trying attack you or anything like that.
所以你眼中的我是个超胖的孩子
So you see me being an overweight kid,
我能感觉到这点 医生也能感觉到这点
and I feel that, and the doctor feels that,
社会建构所传递的信息 也说那是个缺陷 那是错误的
and society has its own constructs why that’s defective or wrong.
所以我觉得自己不好
So, I’m like, “I am not good.”
自己很糟
“I am bad.”
对世界来说 我看起来不正确
“I don’t look correct for the world.”
无论是出于何种原因
And you have to be the person
你成为了那个试图纠正这一点的人
that is attempting to correct that, for whatever those reasons are.
是
Right.
那马上就将你置于敌对的位置
It immediately put you in the position of being adversarial.
你是一个不接受我的人
Of like, “This is the person that doesn’t…accept me.”
你所传递的信息是 女性不会接受我这个样子
It’s the idea that the woman figure will not accept how you look.
我并不怪你
I do not place blame on you,
因为我现在也明白了 已经明白一段时间了
because I also now understand, and have already understood for a while,
你在自己的家庭中感觉有多像我
how much you felt like me in your family.
[Stutz] Hmm.
-我只是想让你知道这对我影响多大 -是
[Jonah] I just want to letyou know how it affected my life.
对我来说 有时以这种形式进行这样的对话
Right.
Because for me, sometimes it’s easier to have conversations like this
比咱们在自家后院尝试沟通要容易
in this form for whatever reason than it–
谢谢你 乔纳 这点我同意
Thank you, Jonah. I appreciate that.
[Sharon and Jonah laugh]
我想谢谢你
I want to say thank you, because you’ve never articulated it
因为你从没把它表述为 “你生活中的女性不接受你的样子”
as “the female figure in your life not accepting the way that you look,”
而我也从未这样想过
and I never thought of it that way.
我只是试图去纠正
I tried to just fix it
也没去想过我让你这么做 会对你产生什么影响
without even thinking about how me telling you to do this would affect you.
先说清楚了 我们不是要分清楚这个那个
Just so we get this straight, it’s not this or that.
那不是重点
That’s not the point.
不管你们把过去理得多清楚
No matter how clear the past is for you,
对你们来说 最重要的是你们现在的关系
for you, the question is, what’s going on now between the two of you,
以及你们需要什么
and what do you need?
你有想过这个问题吗？
-Did you ever think about that? -I do, sometimes.
有 有时候
那你能告诉我们你的想法吗？
Uh-huh.
And can you tell us what you think?
-你可以实话实说 -我知道 我正在想
Um…
-You can speak honestly. -[Sharon] I know. I’m thinking.
我希望能有更多的一致性
I would like a little bit more consistency.
有时候我觉得 乔纳有问题的时候会来找我
Sometimes, I feel like Jonah comes to me,
毕竟我是他妈妈
but I am his mother, when he needs to talk to me.
但当他超级开心的时候 我就好像不存在似的
And when he’s, like, super happy, it’s like I’m in no-man’s-land somewhere.
我不在他的思绪里 我无关紧要
I’m not in his mind or relevant. I don’t know.
我喜欢和乔纳相处
I just like time with Jonah,
因为我觉得我们的关系很真实
because I think we have a real relationship.
我们经历了很多 我觉得我们的关系很深厚
We’ve been through a lot, and I think our relationship is deep,
但有时我会感到焦虑
but sometimes I get anxious.
如果我觉得我说的话 他听了会不高兴 或者…
When I’m like– If I think that he’s not gonna either like what I say or…
不知道 这很难表达
I don’t know. It’s hard to articulate, but…
解释一下
Articulate that.
我正在努力
I’m trying.
我发现我不敢做真实的自己
I find myself holding back from being exactly myself
因为我不希望他对我有不好的看法
because I don’t want him to think a certain way about me.
这你知道吗？
[Stutz] Did you know that?
[inhales deeply]
我不知道
I didn’t know that.
但当我觉得你没在听别人说话
But sometimes I react poorly
而是把焦点都集中在自己身上的时候
when I feel you’re not listening to others and eating up the air or space.
我会做出恶劣的反应
是 我知道
Right, I know.
但说实话 能在这种情况下 了解到她需要什么
But I think it’s cool for me to hear, like, notes on what I could do better