而在你说这句话的那一刻
And the moment you say that,
你落在了位于下方的太阳表面上
you hit the surface of a sun that was down there below you,
整个身体燃烧了起来
and your body burns up.
此刻 你已经失去了一切
Now, at that point, you have lost everything,
因为你的肉体是拥有事物的前提
because the instrument of possession is your physical body.
如今你的肉体燃烧殆尽了
So if your physical body’s burnt up, you’re just one sunbeam
你就变成了其中的一缕阳光
amongst all these other sunbeams.
你在向四面八方放射着光芒
You’re radiating outward in all directions,
你放射的是一种非常有爱的 给予的、流动的感觉
and what you’re radiating is a very loving,
giving, outflowing sensation.
然后你环顾四周
And then you look around,
你看到你周围有无限多的其他太阳
and you see, all around you, an infinite number of other suns,
它们都在向外放射着光芒 就像你掉进的那颗太阳一样
just like the one you’re inside of, all of which are radiating outwards.
然后你听到所有的太阳齐声说
And then you hear the suns, all of them, saying in unison,
“我们无处不在”
“We are everywhere.”
这个世界被称为太阳世界
This world is called a sun world.
你唯一能做的就是给予 你不能索取
All you can do is give. You can’t take.
你不能抓住任何东西 这是不可能的
You can’t grasp. You can’t hold on to anything.
It’s just impossible.
可以睁开眼睛了
Now you can open your eyes.
感觉如何？
How’d it feel?
很棒
[Jonah] Great.
-没什么想说的吗？ -有
-You don’t wanna say anything else? -Yeah, I do.
不执着于工作、身份或与他人的过节
Which is, I’m very good at nonattachment
to, like, a job or an identity or a beef with someone.
这方面我做得很好
我能用工具去实现这一点
I can get there and use the tools to get there.
但当涉及到恋爱关系
When it comes to things like a romantic relationship
或者我所爱的家人之类的事情时
or a family member that I love,
失去那些东西
the idea of losing those things,
是我难以接受的一个概念
I struggle with that concept.
这么说吧
Think about it like this. You’re not trying to become nonattached.
不是要你变得毫无牵挂
而是要你在每次对丧失感到恐惧时
You’re trying to move towards nonattachment
试着走向不执着
every time you get scared of a loss.
对大多数人来说
For most people,
他们一生中从未有过心无牵挂的时候
they’ve never been nonattached for one second in their whole life.
因此即使能朝着这个方向前进 对他们也是有帮助的
So even the fact that they can move towards that
is…is helpful for them.
作为人类 完全无牵挂是不可能的 也不是件好事
If you’re human, it’s not possible.
It wouldn’t even be good if you were totally nonattached.
这解释很有道理
That makes a lot of sense.
所以我们的目标 不是要变得完全无牵挂
So the goal is not to become completely nonattached.
而是努力不让任何人、地方 或者事物的离开
No.
It’s work towards no one person, place, or thing leaving you
彻底夺走自己的整个存在
can completely take away your whole existence
以及自我完整感
and your sense of wholeness.
没错
That’s correct.
我不想把任何东西留在阴影中
I don’t wanna leave anything in the shadows,
因为我不想让它成为吞噬着我的东西
because I don’t want it to become this, like, thing that eats at me.
我觉得把自己的恐惧和痛苦说出来
And even your fears, I think, when you say them,
or your pain, when you say it, does set you free in a lot of ways.
-真的能让你得到解脱 -确实
[Stutz] Yeah, it does.
我采用了丧失处理这个工具 它真的很有帮助
[Jonah] And I use Loss Processing, and it really helps.
我想像和尚一样 说这些工具能将一切化解
I wanna be like a monk and be like, “These tools just help it all dissolve,”
但我仍然每天都感受到那种痛楚
but I still feel that pain every day.
-你知道吗？ -是
-You know? -Yeah.
我还是很想念我哥哥
[Jonah] I still miss my brother.
你不会停止想念他的
[Stutz] Yeah, you will for a very long time.
但让我这么说吧
But let me put it this way.
死亡不是一种永久性的状态
Death is not a permanent condition.
你可以害怕死亡 没关系
You can…you can be afraid of death, that’s fine,
重要的是 你要觉得死亡不是终点
as long as you feel something after death.
死亡后是重生
And that’s rebirth.
从最糟糕的事情中重生是可能的
The idea that rebirth is possible from the very worst,
从最糟糕的经历中重生是可能的
the dregs of the world, dregs of experience,
让事情周期性地复活是可能的
and you can make something cyclically come alive again.
这种想法是人类最接近上帝的方式
That’s the closest a human being can get to God.
[Jonah] Hmm.
我明白生活依旧继续 是我必须接受的现实
Yeah, I understand it’s just a reality and that life just does go on.
但有屈指可数的几个人 是我真的不想失去的
But there’s very few people on that list that I just don’t want to fucking lose so…
我也不想失去你
I don’t want to lose you either.
我该怎么办？
What do I do? [chuckles]
我觉得我们应该结婚
I think we should get married.
我要签订婚前协议
-I want a prenup. -[Jonah laughs]
[melancholic music plays]
[paper swishing]
-哦 在这里呢 -这些太牛逼了
Oh, yeah, here we go, some of the good ones.
These are so sick.
是啊
[Stutz] Yeah, this…
制♥作♥这部电影对我的帮助之一是
[Jonah] One of the things that this movie is accomplishing for me
while I’m making it
我曾经以为我所仰慕的那些人
is that I used to think that the people I look up to
是不会遇到我所遇到的问题的
are absolved of the problems that I have.
抱歉
[laughs] I’m sorry.
我能理解
I understand. I under–
我知道这真的很荒唐
[Jonah] It’s absurd. I know. It really is absurd. It’s not…
-你笑是因为这很荒唐 -对
[splutters]
-You’re laughing ’cause it’s absurd. -Yeah.
我觉得让大家看到这一点很好
Right. And I think it’s good for people to see
对我来说 你是创造了这些东西的人
that you, for me, are someone who’s created these things,
而我们所仰慕的人 也免不了遇到我们所遇到的问题
and I think it’s important that people who we look up to
我觉得明白这一点很重要
aren’t exempt from all the problems that we ourselves have.
你仍然像其他人一样 经历着身为人的挣扎与奋斗
You are still in the struggle and in the fight of being a human
just like everybody else is.
你的整个设定就是 我们永远摆脱不了痛苦
Your whole thing is that you’re never exempt from the pain
或不确定性 或不间断的努力
or the uncertainty or the constant work.
我觉得能看到你脆弱的一面 是一件很唯美的事
And I think there’s something beautiful about seeing your vulnerability,
对我来说 这剖明了 永远不会有知道所有答案的人
for me, that dissects
that there will never be anyone that has it all figured out.
对
Yeah.
那就是人生的秘密
That’s the secret of life.
-就我而言 -秘密是什么？
-As far as I’m concerned. -Is what?
接受你永远不会知道所有的答案 没有人会知道所有的答案
[Stutz] Accepting that you won’t figure it out ever.
Nobody else will figure it out.
快乐取决于你如何接受这一点
Happiness depends on how you accept that
以及你如何看待它
and what you do about it.
但首先是要接受它 因为如果你不接受它
But first is accept it, because if you don’t accept it,
你脑子里就会有 可以克服它或消除它的想法
you have this thing in your mind that I can get over it
or under it and eliminate it, and you can’t.
而你并不能
Hmm.
这是很棒的一刻
This is such a great moment right now.
你们能不能就这样呆着 我先回家睡觉了
Could you guys stay just like this, and I’m gonna go home and go to sleep?
我明早回到这里时 想看到你们…
When I get back here in the morning, I want to find you just…
-这样合理吗？ -嗯
-Would that be reasonable? -[Jonah] Yeah.
你累了吗？
Are you tired?
对 我有点累了
-Yeah, I’m kind of tired. -[Jonah] All right, go lay down.
好吧 你去躺下吧
[loud thud]
你闭上眼睛时看到了什么？
What do you see when you close your eyes?
我看到大海
I see an ocean.
一片美丽的海滩 海浪…
And it’s a beautiful beach, and the waves are–
不是巨浪 只是形状完美的海浪
They’re not huge waves. They’re just perfectly formed waves.
海浪现在打在我的身上
And they’re running up and down my body now.
水是暖的还是冷的？
[Jonah] Is the water warm or cold?
暖的
Warm.
[waves lapping]
你知道我弟弟入院的时候 我妈妈说了什么吗？
You know what my mother said when my brother, um, went into the hospital?
她说“他进去的时候是个婴儿”
She said, “He went…he… he entered it as an infant,”
当时他只有三岁嘛
or, you know, he was three,
“但三个月后” 我想他死的时候是三个月后
“but three months later,” I think it was three months later when he died,
“他已经成人了”
“he was a grown man.”
他蜕变了
Um…
So something…He was transformed.
这让我感到非常难过 但也…
It made me feel so, um, sad, but also,
uh…
也非常敬畏
Also in awe, I guess.
-你现在能看到他吗？ -什么？
-[Jonah] Can you see him now? -[exhales] What?
你现在看到他了吗？
[Jonah] You see him now?
对 他不是特别…
Yeah, I mean, it’s… He…he’s not particularly–
我感觉那是我弟弟 但感觉他…
I feel that that is my brother, but, you know, he feels like…
感觉他和你年龄相仿
He feels like he’s your age, actually.