But the masses won’t be able to get there by train,
而如果我们坚持目前的规划 你甚至不允许公共汽车进入
and if we stick to the current plans, you’re not even giving access for buses.
再提醒我一下 这海滩到底是为哪些人准备的？
So remind me again, which masses exactly is this beach for?
他们会开车来的
They arrive by car,
否则就不来啦
or they don’t arrive.
那么买♥♥不起车的人呢？
And the people who can’t afford a car?
别这样 芬努拉
Don’t you start, Finnuala.
吼~~~ 别再怀疑啦
Ho–ho–ho! Don’t you start doubting.
我们就这样开始了
So, that’s how we began.
艾尔·史密斯请法官吃了午餐
Al Smith took the judge out to lunch.
如今 如果一个人在纽约州的任何一条
Today, if a person is driving on a road anywhere in New York State
以“高速公路”命名的道路上行驶
which has the word ‘Expressway’ in its name,
那么他们就是在由罗伯特·摩西修建的道路上行驶
they are driving on a road built by Robert Moses.
最终 我们修建了六百二十七英里长的高速公路
Eventually, we would build 627 miles of highway.
五十年代初 我从《钢铁时代》转到了《建筑论♥坛♥》
Early in the ’50s, I moved from Iron Age to Architectural Forum.
当时我仍是一个编辑
I was still a scribbler.
那时 罗伯特·摩西这名字在整个州 整座城市里无人不在
By then, Robert Moses was everywhere – all over the state, and all over the city.
我只知道大家都知道的事 他是个直线偏执狂
I only knew what everyone knew, that he was straight–line crazy.
像许多规划师一样 他想在任意两点之间划一条直线
Like so many planners, he wanted to put a straight line between any two points
然后沿着这条线去修建
and build where his ruler went.
如今
Now,
他画了一条高速公路的线
he drew a line for an expressway
笔直穿过城市的中心
straight down the middle of the city.
这正是曼哈顿被撕裂的时刻
The moment had come to rip through Manhattan itself.
下一位发言人…
The next speaker…
下一位发言人是我们的一位朋友
The next speaker is a friend of ours.
她在这个村子里住了很多很多年
She’s lived in the Village for many, many years.
对她来说 这里就像在我家一样 已经有…很长时间了
It’s her home, as it’s been mine, for… ooh, a long time.
她住在哈德逊
She lives on Hudson.
一位朋友说她 “真是个可爱的人儿啊 不是嘛”
A friend said of her, ‘What a dear, sweet character – she isn’t.’
这说的是简
That’s Jane.
她正在写一本书 是关于… 这不是我该说的
And she’s writing a book about… Well, it’s not for me to say.
–你来告诉我们吧 简！ –关于城市的
– You tell us, Jane! – Kind of city things.
就是这 关于城市的！
There it is, kind of city things!
什么是城市？
What is a city?
城市应该是什么？
What should it be?
我们为什么要去群居？
Why do we live in groups?
我们想从城市中得到什么？
What do we want from cities?
这又由谁来决定？
And who decides?
简什么都知道
Jane knows everything.
但她肯定知道的是
And the one thing she really knows is,
她肯定不希望有一条路直穿华盛顿广场公园
she sure as hell doesn’t want a road straight through Washington Square Park.
–对 她不希望！ –简
– No, she does not! – Jane.
我所知道的是 城市就这样一点一点地在发展
What I do know, cities grow up. They just happen, bit by bit.
把城市交给规划师 他们会把它变成荒漠
Hand a city to the planners, and they’ll make it a desert.
把城市交给人们 他们就会使其宜居
Hand it to the people, and they’ll make it habitable.
罗伯特·摩西在西村区看到的是一片贫民窟
Robert Moses looks at the West Village, and he sees a slum.
而我在西村区看到的是一个健康的社区
I look at the West Village, and I see a healthy neighbourhood.
–我看到了生活 –太对啦！
– I see life. – Right!
鲍勃·摩西热爱政♥府♥
Bob Moses, he loves government.
而我不喜欢也不相信政♥府♥
I don’t. I don’t trust it.
在过去的二十五年里
In the last 25 years,
摩西为了修建道路 已经把二十五万人赶出了他们的家园
Moses has moved 250.000 people out of their homes to make way for his roads.
他建造了毫无生气的石板路 而住在那里的人都恨那玩意
And he’s built lifeless slabs – the people who live in them hate them.
你可以把那弄成烤箱 但你也不能指望面包会自己跳进去
You can build ovens, but you can’t expect the loaves just to jump in.
你该把这用笔记下来
You should write that down.
我不明白为什么破坏人们所爱之物会被看作是进步
I don’t understand why it’s progress to destroy things people love.
如果你觉得我太过自信 那我只能说你说的都对
And if you’re thinking that I’m too sure of myself, I can only say you’re right.
我对自己很有自信
Yes, I’m sure of myself.
但我不像罗伯特·摩西那样的自以为是
But unlike Robert Moses, I’m not full of myself.
听啊 听啊
Hear, hear.
我们需要战争
We need war,
全面且彻底的战争
full out and flat out,
以阻止摩西正在规划着的侵略行为
to stop this hideous violation Moses is planning.
他刚刚摧毁了布朗克斯区 现在又想摧毁这西村区
He just destroyed the Bronx, now he wants to destroy the Village.
人们都说 不要肮脏的斗争 那是敌人的做法
Now, people say don’t fight dirty, that’s what the enemy does.
但我说 如果斗争必须在泥泞中进行
But I say if the fight’s in the mud,
那我们就冲进那泥泞 并在泥泞中取胜
then it’s into the mud we go and it’s in the mud we win!
–对！ –对！
– Yes! – Yes!
–他回来了吗？ –没有消息
– Is he back? – No sign of him.
与市长共进午餐 总是没完没了 他脱身不了
Lunch with the mayor. It’s always endless. He can’t get away.
–都已经四点一刻啦 –那是你的午餐
– It’s quarter to four. – That’s lunch for you.
罗伯特·瓦格纳逼着他喝他讨厌的马提尼
Robert Wagner makes him drink martinis, which he hates,
然后还喋喋不休
and then Wagner talks for ever.
摩西先生讨厌所有当权者 不是吗？
Mr Moses hates everyone in authority, doesn’t he?
他讨厌艾尔·史密斯
He didn’t hate Al Smith.
–他崇拜艾尔 –我很抱歉问这…
– He worshipped him. – I’m sorry to ask this…
–没关系 – 但也提醒下我
– It’s OK. – But just remind me.
在三十年前 史密斯先生是摩西先生的第一任州长
Mr Smith was Mr Moses’ first governor, 30 years ago.
是那个竞选总统的艾尔·史密斯吗？
Is that the Al Smith that ran for president?
–对 在1928年 –我还没出生
– Yes. In 1928. – I wasn’t born.
–他没竞选成功 –他为什么会输？
– He was unsuccessful. – Why did he lose?
他是个天主教♥徒♥
He was a Catholic.
你认为天主教♥徒♥永远不可能成为总统？
You think a Catholic could never be president?
我只能告诉你 这是艾尔·史密斯唯一一次竞选失败
All I can tell you, it’s the only election Al Smith ever lost.
摩西先生说过 在提及政客时
Mr Moses says when it comes to politicians,
史密斯是他唯一为之工作过的
Smith’s the only one he ever worked for.
他都不屑为其他政客工作
All the others he worked in spite of.
挺有意思的
That’s funny.
他仍然称呼他为州长
He still calls him Governor.
他于1944年去世
He died in 1944.
他为什么这么喜欢他？
Why was he so fond of him?
也许是因为相似的性格吧
Similar kind of personality, maybe.
史密斯先生也是个恶霸吗？
Was Mr Smith a bully?
你是这样评价摩西先生的吗？
Is that how you characterise Mr Moses?
没关系的
Oh, it’s all right.
你想说什么都行 我保证他不会知道的
You can say anything you like. I promise it won’t get back to him.
我想摩西先生是一个习惯按自己的方式行事的人
I guess Mr Moses is a man who’s used to getting his own way.
–他对自己的想法非常自信 –那你不认可这些嘛？
– He’s very sure of his own ideas. – And you don’t agree with them?
看啊 康奈尔小姐 我才刚开始 我刚从学校毕业
Look, Miss Connell, I’m starting out. I’m just out of school.
–我从未从事过建筑设计 –然而？
– I’ve never practised architecture. – But?
好吧 既然你问了
OK, well, since you ask,
这一切都有点…
it is all a little…
–令人失望 –为什么？
– disappointing. – Why?
（都为现代主义建筑学派代表人物）
在学校里 我们对 瓦尔特·格罗皮乌斯 和 勒·柯布西耶 都非常着迷
At school, we were all on fire about Walter Gropius and Le Corbusier.
–你知道他们的吧？ –我知道
– You know about them? – I do.
对不起 你当然知道 还有包豪斯 人们想让建筑变得现代
Sorry, of course you do. Bauhaus, people wanting to make architecture modern.
此时能去学习真是再好不过了 只有天空能限制我们
It’s an exciting time to be a student. The sky is the limit.
当我的第一份工作是来这帮忙时…
And when I got my first job helping out here…
是啊 我知道摩西先生是个先驱者
Look, I know what a pioneer Mr Moses is.
没有他纽约就不是纽约 道路系统 西区高速公路
New York wouldn’t be New York without him. The road systems, the West Side Highway.
–他的成就遍布全州各地 –他确实
– And there he is all over the state. – He is, indeed.
公园 游乐场 游泳池
The parks, playgrounds, swimming pools.
–当然 –这座城的桥梁 住房♥规划
– Sure. – The bridges, the housing schemes,
甚至是将联♥合♥国♥总部设在纽约
getting the UN for New York, everything.
摩西先生所做的一切都是前所未有的 没可媲美的 可是…
There’s never been anything like it, the scale, but it’s just…
可与他共事呢？
Working with him?
–我感到非常惊讶 –你这样了吗？
– I am surprised. – Are you?
怎么说？
In what way?
–我期待的是思想的碰撞–好吧
– I was expecting an exchange of ideas. – OK.
–我知道我的级别是最低的… –也倒不是
– I know I’m the lowest of the low… – Not quite.
..但我也并没有听到太多的想法被交流讨论
..but I haven’t heard much stuff being bounced around.
确实如此
That’s true.
和鲍勃在一起的时候 没有太多那样的碰撞
With Bob, there’s not a lot of bouncing around.
还有…
Also…
这…这很复杂
It’s… It’s complicated.
我有家人住在布朗克斯区
I had family who lived in the Bronx.
好吧 你从没提过
OK. You’ve never mentioned them.
–对 –近亲吗？
– No. – Close family?
叔叔 阿姨和表兄弟们
Uncles, aunts, cousins.