斯坦·李（2023）

when there were articles written about Spider-Man,
称呼我是蜘蛛侠的创作者
which called me the creator of Spider-Man,
而我一直以为我是 因为是我说
and I had always thought I was, because I’m the guy who said,
我有个蜘蛛侠连环漫画的构想
I have an idea for a strip called Spider-Man and so forth.
(斯坦·李与史蒂夫迪特科 如何创作蜘蛛侠)
史蒂夫说提出构想没什么
Steve had said having an idea is nothing
因为在实现之前 那只是构想
because until it becomes a physical thing, it’s just an idea,
他说漫画是他画的 他赋予它生命
and he said it took him to draw the strip and to give it life, so to speak,
让它成为实质的东西
or to make it something tangible.
否则 我只有一个构想而已
Otherwise, all I had was an idea.
我对他说
So, I said to him,
「我想提出构想的人就是创作者」
“Well, I think the person with the idea is the person who creates it,”
他说:「不对 因为是我画的」
And he said, “No, because I drew it.”
(如何 史蒂夫?我们每页放12格)
(我画画时你在练习签名)
最开始我会想出详细的情节
In the very beginning, I would come up with a rather detailed plot.
告诉史蒂夫
Tell Steve what it was.
他自行画出连环漫画 我没给他完整脚本
He would draw the strip any way he wanted. I didn’t give him a complete script.
他会加入很多我没想到的东西
He’d add a lot of things that I hadn’t even thought of.
然后我会拿到一页页的画作
And then, I would get the pages of artwork,
加入对话 设法让每个人
and I would put in the dialogue trying to give everything
都有我想要赋予的个性
and everyone the personality that I wanted them to have.
史蒂夫非常有创意 我们两人
Steve is a very creative guy. And the two of us,
只要讨论情节 总会争吵
whenever we discuss plots, we always just argue
因为我想这样 他想那样
because I want to do it one way and he wants to do it another.
即使我可能不认同
And even though I may disagree,
我觉得他以不同方式表现 能让情节很出色
I feel just the fact that he did it differently will make it good
因为它不会是我们常写的那种情节
because it won’t be the usual type of plot coming out of our stable.
他照自己的意思画 让我觉得工作起来加倍困难
He’ll just do them as he wants them, which makes it twice as difficult for me.
但我乐在其中 我从他手中拿回一个故事
I enjoy it, though. I get a story back from him,
完全不晓得它的内容
and I don’t have the vaguest idea what this is about
因为我根本没给他一点概念
because I didn’t even give him a thumbnail idea.
他就是回家 画他想画的
He just went home, and he did whatever he wanted.
我说:「好 我告诉大家 你是共同创作人」
So, I said, “Fine, I’ll tell everybody you’re the co-creator.”
(斯坦·李与史蒂夫迪特科着)
那样也不能满足他
That didn’t quite satisfy him.
(费心编写脚本与绘图 史蒂夫迪特科)
我真心认为提出构想的人是创作者
I really think the guy who dreams the thing up created it.
你想出来 交给别人去画
You dream it up, and then you give it to anybody to draw it.
我们失去了漫画家史蒂夫迪特科
We’ve just lost the artist Steve Ditko
真糟糕
Horrible.
有一天他打电♥话♥来说他要离开
One day he just phoned and he said, “I’m leaving.”
就那样
So that was it.
他是广受欢迎的漫画家
He was such a popular artist.
(向坚毅的史蒂夫迪特科 欢呼与告别)
我们已经找到人接替他
I think that we’ve managed to find people to replace him
那些嘘声会变成一阵欢呼
where those boos will change to a chorus of cheers.
史蒂夫和我合作无间
Steve and I worked beautifully together.
在我认为 他是完美的合作伙伴
As far as I was concerned, he was the perfect collaborator.
他的画作很出色
His artwork was superb.
他对故事的看法很敏锐
His story sense was brilliant.
史蒂夫最后不再和我们合作时 我很难过
I was heartbroken when Steve finally stopped working with us.
你们出版的漫画比任何人都多
You’ve put out more comics, I think than about anyone.
对 我们是最大的
Yeah, we’re the biggest.
没有控制的问题吗?
Isn’t there a problem of control?
那是我们最大的问题之一 没错
It’s one of our biggest problems. You’re right.
我最希望能做一本杂♥志♥就好
I would love nothing better than to be doing one magazine,
由我亲自撰写编辑
which I could personally write and edit
可惜 我们有点像个大量生产的企业
and, unfortunately, we’re a little bit like a mass production outfit.
我想我们都很挫折
I think we’re all frustrated.
我们都想一周进行一个故事
We’d all like to be able to spend a week on one story.
可惜由于经济因素 根本不可能
Unfortunately, because of the economics of this business, it’s totally impossible.
我们一天生产两本完整的漫画 就像条生产线
We produce about two complete comic books a day. It’s like a production line.
如果你看过卓别麟的老片《摩登时代》
If you ever saw the old Charlie Chaplin movie Modern Times,
有场戏是卓别麟在生产在线
there was a scene where Charlie Chaplin is on a production line
他负责拿两支扳手
and his job is to do this with two wrenches
产品过来时他必须转紧螺栓
while things come down and he has to tighten the bolts
他晚上回家还维持同样的姿势
and he goes home at night and he’s still doing this, you know.
有时我们也有这种感觉 根本不知道自己在做什么
Well, sometimes we feel like that. We don’t even know what we’re working on.
一页页的漫画不断送过来
The pages are just coming by and…
校对那个 改一下名称
“Proofread that. Change that title,
拿掉那个字
“get the lettering out and finish.”
结果一天做两本书
And off it goes. Two books a day.
当时每个人都忙着做自己的书
In those days, everybody was just busy doing his work.
压力很大 必须及时出书
There was a lot of pressure to turn those things out in time.
因为他们每页的收入有限
Because of the fact that they don’t get paid very much per page
每天必须画很多页才能温饱
and that they have to do a lot of pages a day in order to eke out a living,
漫画家会说他们没机会
the artists would say that they don’t have a chance
真正展现他们的才华
to really show how good they are.
但大约那时候 柯比离开了
Sometime around then, Kirby left.
(杰克·柯比意外宣布辞职)
(离开我们惊讶但坚定的团队)
(1970年 杰克·柯比离开漫威漫画)
我们现场访问到杰克·柯比
We’re speaking with Jack Kirby live.
(杰克·柯比访谈 1987年)
现在我们要宣布惊喜的特别来宾
And now we can announce the very special surprise guest,
你的同事斯坦·李
your colleague, Stan Lee.
我想祝杰克生日快乐
I wanna wish Jack a happy birthday.
斯坦利 我想谢谢你打来
Well, Stanley, I want to thank you for calling and I hope
祝你健康 希望你保持健康
you’re in good health and I hope you stay in good health.
我会尽力 你也是 不管我们合作什么
I’m doing my best and the same to you. You know, whatever we did together,
不管是谁做什么 我想那都是
and no matter who did what, and I guess that’s something
永远可以争论的问题
that’ll be argued forever.
但我想完成的成品
But I think that the product that was produced
其实都比原本预期的更好
was really even more than a sum of its parts.
我想我们合作时产生了魔力
I think there was some slight magic that came into effect,
发挥了作用
when we worked together.
我始终没后悔过 那是很棒的经验
Well, I was never sorry for it, Stanley. It was a great experience for me.
如果成品很棒 那我就心满意足了
If the product was good, that was my satisfaction.
其实说到底 是谁做的不重要
You know, when it comes right down to it, it doesn’t matter who exactly did what.
这么说吧 脚本上对话的每个字都是我的
Well, I’ll say this. Every word of dialogue in those scripts was mine.
我不想… -每个故事
Well, I don’t want… Every story.
我不想谈论这个争议 我想…
I don’t want to get into controversy about that. What I want to…
我能告诉你我在每格上面
I can tell you that I wrote a few lines myself
都写过几句话 -对 我看过
above every panel that I… – RADIO HOST: Yes, I’ve seen those.
结果没印在书上 -听着
They weren’t printed in the book. RADIO HOST: Look.
杰克 老实回答我 -我没…
Jack, answer me truthfully. KIRBY: I wasn’t allowed to…
那些故事完成后你看过吗?
Did you ever read one of the stories after it was finished?
我想你没看过我的故事
I don’t think you did. I don’t think you ever read one of my stories.
你老是忙着画下一个故事
I think you were always busy drawing the next one.
完成时你根本没看过
You never read when it was finished.
上面不管写什么都没…
Whatever was written in ’em wasn’t…
我有兴趣的是动作
Well, look, it was the action I was interested in.
我知道 你可能觉得不重要
I know, and I think you felt, “Well, it doesn’t matter.
谁都能加上对话 你画的图才重要
“Anybody can put the dialogue in, it’s what I’m drawing that matters.”
我不认同 但也许你的想法没错
And maybe you’re right. I don’t agree with it.
不 我只想说编写和绘图
No. I’m only trying to say that one man and his writing and drawing,
以及创作连环漫画 应该来自同一个人
and doing a strip, it should come from an individual.
我认为你应该有机会
I believe that you should have the opportunity,
自己做整件作品
uh, to do the entire thing yourself.
漫威的成功在于…
The success of Marvel had to do with…
持续关注在角色上
To keeping a greater attention to the characters
而非创作者的自尊心
than to the egos of the people creating them.
当你提到自尊问题 奇怪的是
When you mention an ego problem, the funny thing is,
恐怕那些问题现在才冒出来
I’m afraid those problems are only cropping up now.
杰克和我在做连环漫画时 没有自尊问题
I think when Jack and I did the strips, there was no ego problem.
我们就是尽全力去做
We were just doing the best we could.
听着 你现在能了解
Listen, you can understand now, uh,
真实的情况了
how things really were.
(1972年)
(1972年 斯坦担任出品人)
(卸下日常的写作职务)
(迫使他任命总编辑的接♥班♥人)
我的来宾不只是我的老友和同事
My guest is somebody who is not only an old friend and associate
也是这一行最重要的人物之一
but one of the genuine talented movers and shakers of our business.
罗伊托马斯 漫威漫画名誉主编
Roy Thomas, editor-emeritus of Marvel Comics,
漫画界最杰出的作家
and as good a writer as we’re ever going to find anywhere
或许也是当今最好的作家