斯坦·李（2023）

Then I thought why not Spider-Man?
所以我走进马丁古曼的办公室
I walked in to the publisher Martin Goodman
我说:「我想写本书叫《蜘蛛侠》
and I said “I have an idea for a book called Spider-Man
他是一个有许多烦恼的少年」
“about a teenager who has a lot of problems.”
这次马丁没附和我 他说:「斯坦
This time, Martin wouldn’t go along with me, he said, “Stan,
你让我很惊讶
“I’m surprised at you.
英雄不能是青少年 青少年只能当搭档
“And a hero can’t be a teenager. A teenager can only be a sidekick.
你说你要他有很多烦恼?
“And you say you want him to have problems?
你不知道什么是超级英雄吗?」
“Don’t you know what a superhero is?”
他是老板 所以我不能出版《蜘蛛侠》
He was the boss and I couldn’t put Spider-Man out.
但我又觉得非做不可
But I just felt I had to get it out of my system.
(惊奇成人幻想)
几个月后 我们有本书要停刊了
Months later, we had a book we were going to kill
叫《惊奇幻想》
called Amazing Fantasy.
当一本书要停刊
When you drop a book,
没人在乎你那期刊登什么 因为就要结束了
nobody cares what you put in the last issue, ’cause you’re killing it.
(蜘蛛侠登场)
为了完成我的心愿
So just to get it out of my system,
我加入蜘蛛侠 放在封面上
I put Spider-Man and I feature him on the cover.
幸好马丁没当场开除我
I’m lucky Martin didn’t fire me on the spot.
在那个故事里
But in that story,
我尽量把一堆烦恼 加在可怜的彼得帕克身上
I tried to heap as many problems as I could on poor Peter Parker.
我觉得多数人 就连表面上幸福的人都有烦恼
Because I feel most people, even people who seem to be happy, have problems.
蜘蛛侠的力量抵得过25个人
Spider-Man’s got the strength of 25 men
能飞檐走壁 靠蜘蛛丝在大楼间摆荡
and can walk on walls and swing from building to building on his own web,
但他还是不能出去追坏人
but he still can’t go out and chase a villain
因为他的老梅婶说外面在下雨
because his old Aunt May says, “It’s raining out
会感冒 晚上最好待在家里
“and you might catch cold. Better stay home tonight.”
我没看过任何超级英雄
I had not read any other superheroes
会宁愿自己不是超级英雄
who felt they wished they could quit being a superhero.
我把他写成一个经常自省的人
I made him a guy who is very introspective.
他会质疑:「我为何要这么做?」
He questions, “Why am I doing this?”
(能力越强 责任越大!)
那本书上市了
The book went on sale.
后来销♥售♥数字出炉
Later, when the sales figures came in,
马丁跑进我办公室说:「斯坦
Martin came running into my office, he said, “Stan!
你记得你那个角色 我们都很喜欢的蜘蛛侠吗?
“Do you remember that character of yours, Spider-Man, that we both liked so much?
不如帮他写一个连载系列吧?」
“Why don’t you do a series of him?”
(超凡蜘蛛侠)
此后我觉得自己无所不能
After that, I felt I can do anything.
我身边总是有优秀的漫画家
There were always good artists around.
杰克和史蒂夫都非常独特
Jack and Steve, both were terribly unique.
杰克的画作在概念上 非常像一部刺♥激♥的好电影
Conceptually, Jack’s artwork is very much like a good, exciting movie.
杰克能在他画的每个情境中 达到视觉上的高点
Jack has a way of hitting the high point, visually, in every situation he’s drawing.
他会画出那个情境的极致
He’ll draw the extreme of that situation.
不管最刺♥激♥的元素是什么 他都画得出来
Whatever is the most exciting element, he will draw that.
结果他的画作总是令人目不暇给
And consequently his artwork is always fascinating to watch.
史蒂夫迪特科画的人物 在许多方面与杰克相反
Steve Ditko, he drew characters, in many ways, the opposite of Jack.
我总觉得史蒂夫的画作非常低调
Steve’s artwork, I always felt, was very low-key
他有办法以写实方式说故事
and he had a way of telling a story realistically.
看一阵子 你会忘记你在看漫画
After a while, you’d forget you’re reading a comic book
以为那是真人实事
and you’d think this was really happening.
杰克·柯比应该是当时最棒的漫画家
Jack Kirby was probably the greatest comic book artist around,
我原本要杰克画《蜘蛛侠》
and I wanted Jack, originally, to do the Spider-Man,
但又不要蜘蛛侠显得太英勇
but I didn’t want Spider-Man to look heroic.
我希望他是个典型的羞怯男生
I wanted him to be just a typical nebbishy kind of guy,
我对杰克提到这点
and I mentioned that to Jack,
但他太习惯画美国队长那种人物
but Jack was so used to drawing Captain America and characters like that.
当他交给我前几页 我说:「不行
When he gave me the first couple of pages, I said, “No, that…
你让他显得太英勇了」
“You got him looking too heroic.”
我把漫画交给史蒂夫 杰克无所谓
So I gave the strip to Steve. It didn’t matter to Jack.
因为没人知道那会成为畅销漫画
Nobody knew it would be a big strip
杰克也忙着做其他的书
and Jack was busy doing all the other books.
史蒂夫是完美的人选
Steve was just perfect for it.
他捕捉到一个平凡人
He got that feeling of an average guy
变成英雄 但还是有烦恼的感觉
who turned into a hero and still had problems.
结果 传奇就此诞生
And lo, a legend was born.
欢迎我们的特别来宾 斯坦·李
Here’s our special guest, Stan Lee.
蜘蛛侠呢?知道蜘蛛侠吗?
How about Spider-Man? Know about Spider-Man?
知道
Yeah.
浩克呢?知道浩克吗? -知道
How about the Hulk? You know the Hulk? – Yeah.
你最喜欢哪一个?
Which one is your favorite?
这就像问父母最爱哪个小孩
Oh, gee. You know, that’s almost like asking a parent who’s his favorite child?
我想我爱他们全部
I think I love them all.
或许我喜欢蜘蛛侠多一点
But maybe I like Spider-Man a little bit better,
可能因为他太受欢迎了
and maybe it’s because he’s just so popular.
在漫画里
In comics, is it usually
最成功的通常都是高大强壮 和丑陋的角色吗?
the big, strong, and ugly characters that are most successful?
不是 知道是谁吗?是那些最有趣
No. You know what it is? It’s the ones that are the most interesting
让漫画读者最有共鸣的角色
and the ones that the readers of comics can most relate to.
跟角色丑陋或英俊
It doesn’t matter if the character is ugly, or is handsome,
强或弱没有关系
or is weak, or is strong.
那个角色势必有一个地方让你喜欢
If there’s something about the character that makes you like the character
让你关心
and care about the character,
也就是你必须同理那个角色
the word for that is, you have to empathize with the character.
为什么要有超级英雄 怎样算好的超级英雄?
Why do there have to be superheroes and what makes a good one?
蜘蛛侠或超人这样的英雄 需要哪些特质?
What ingredients does it take to have like a Spider-Man or a Superman?
有一个重点是同理
The one important thing is empathy.
必须是读者关心的超级英雄
It has to be a superhero the reader cares about.
我们在漫威试图做一件事
One thing we’ve tried to do at Marvel,
我们希望超级英雄更真实
we have tried to have superheroes that are more realistic,
更有血有肉
more flesh and blood
让年轻读者接受
and it prepares the young reader for the fact that
当他进入真实世界… -爬墙
when he gets out into the world… – MAN: To climb walls.
会发觉他并不期望英雄是完美的
…he realizes that he doesn’t expect his heroes to be perfect.
有一次蜘蛛侠收到一张支票
There was a time when Spider-Man received a check
作为他的报酬 票是开给蜘蛛侠的
as a reward for something he had done, made out to Spider-Man
他穿着蜘蛛侠装去银行兑现
and he went to a bank to cash it in his Spider-Man costume
(我想兑现这张支票)
行员说:「我不能帮你兑现
and the teller said, “Well, I can’t cash this check,
我需要证件」
“I need identification.” –
他说:「我穿着蜘蛛侠装」
And he said, “Oh, I’m wearing a Spider-Man costume.”
他说:「任何人都能穿蜘蛛侠装」
He said, “Anybody could wear a Spider-Man costume.”
他无法兑现那张支票
He was never able to cash the check.
我最希望那些书看起来很有趣
I wanted those books, more than anything else, to be fun.
我要书中的一切都能吸引读者
And I wanted everything in them to attract the readers’ attention
(神秘客!)
能引发读者讨论
and to cause the readers to talk.
我想尽力
And I wanted to do whatever I could
让我们的书独树一格
to set our books aside and apart from the rest.
我乐在其中
I was just having fun.
我想到什么都觉得是好点子
Anything I thought of I said, “That’s a good idea.
我要写出世界最伟大的漫画 管他的
“I’m gonna write, ‘The world’s greatest comic.’ What the hell.”
你说漫威漫画是一个狂野奇妙的世界
You describe what you call the wild wondrous world of Marvel Comics.
那是什么样的世界?
What kind of world is it?
基本上我们把漫威漫画当成大人的童话
Basically, we think of Marvel Comics as fairy tales for older people.
我们主要工作是改写古老的传奇
Actually, I think what we do mostly is improve on the old legends, you see.
我们撷取精华 加上一点漫威特色
We take the best of them and give it a little Marvel touch
就有了难以形容的作品
and we’ve got something really indescribable.
杰克和我已经出了《绿巨人浩克》 和《神奇四侠》
Jack and I had already done The Hulk and The Fantastic Four.
我想 我们该如何超越其他角色?
And I felt, what can we do to top these other characters?
我想到 我们还没推出神
And it occurred to me, we hadn’t done a god.
大多数人都读过希腊和罗马神祇
Most people had read all about the Greek gods and the Roman gods
但北欧神祇没那么有名 所以我想
but the Norse Gods weren’t as well known. So I figured
(阴间之雷)
何不推出北欧神祇呢?
why not do the Norse Gods?
我认为索尔是当中最有戏剧性的
And I thought Thor was the most dramatic of all
他有一把神奇锤子 也是最强大的
’cause he had that magic hammer, and he was the most powerful one.
他也是雷神
And he was the God of Thunder.
(雷神索尔!战争之焰!)
我以为那只会是另一本书
I thought it would just be another book,
我想杰克把他变成了最伟大的…
and I think that Jack has turned him into one of the greatest
(斯坦·李与杰克·柯比润饰)
虚构角色之一
fictional characters there are.
(声源:杰克·柯比)
这些年来我对神话类型的角色