我很好奇你吃萝美生菜吗?
I’m curious if you eat romaine?
我不吃
I don’t.
妳会吃萝美生菜吗?
Do you eat romaine?
我大多会避免萝美生菜
I do steer clear of romaine for the most part.
我每次吃都会去想
I mean, I think about it every time I eat it.
我…我赌一把
I, you know… I’ve rolled the dice.
两位有任何绝对避免去吃的食物吗?
Are there any foods that you both absolutely avoid?
袋装…我们不买♥♥现成的包装沙拉
Bagged– We don’t buy prepackaged bagged salads.
对
Um… – Yeah.
我们也会尽量避免萝美生菜
We kind of tend to shy away from romaine,
尤其是来自犹马或是萨利纳斯
especially from Yuma or Salinas.
(萨利纳斯谷,喂饱我们的国家)
依你看绿叶蔬菜行销协议的回应
Has the LGMA response prevented
有免除绿叶蔬菜的疫情大爆发吗?
leafy greens outbreaks in your opinion?
绿叶蔬菜行销协议 替业界带来了重大的不同
LGMA has made a significant difference in this industry.
有任何研究纪录显示
Are there any studies that document
绿叶蔬菜行销协议实施后 食安有所改善吗?
the improvement of safety after the implementation of LGMA?
据我所知没有
I don’t know of any.
所以你说你很有信心
So you say that you feel confident
这避免了某些疫情大爆发
that it’s prevented certain outbreaks–
当然
Absolutely.
我想要列举
I want to run through
过去五年来发生的一些实例
some things that have gone down the past five years.
2017年9月,八人死于食用菠菜
So September 2017, eight people sick from spinach.
2017年11月,67人因另一不明的 绿叶蔬菜疫情大爆发而染疫
November 2017, 67 people sick from another unknown leafy green outbreak.
隔年三月是重大事件 248人染疫,五人死亡
Then the following year in March, a big one, 248 people, five dead.
2018年4月,十人…
April 2018, ten people.
2018年10月,三起个别的绿叶蔬菜 疫情大爆发,
October 2018, three separate leafy green outbreaks,
造成135人染疫
sickening 135 people.
11月,同样事由,167人染疫
November, same thing, 167 people sick.
2019年11月 同年另有两起疫情大爆发
November 2019, two more outbreaks that same year.
2020年10月,40人
October 2020, 40 people.
这不是很好的纪录吧?
This isn’t a great track record, is it?
我想我们有许多事能引以为荣
I think we have a lot to be proud of.
当然这些事件每一起都是悲剧
Certainly, every one of those is… is a tragic incident
对这些消费者造成莫大的影响
and the effect it had on those consumers.
但我对于我们 透过绿叶蔬菜行销协议达成的进步
But I am confident of the progress that we have made through the LGMA
以及对业界带来的新气象 感到很有信心
and the difference we have made in the industry.
我报导这些萝美生菜疫情大爆发
One thing that jumped out at me when reporting
尤其让我注意到的一件事
on these romaine lettuce outbreaks
就是联邦政♥府♥ 几乎没有着力
is how little the federal government
去加以处理
was doing to address them.
许多年来我们把责任交给业界
For many years, we’ve given the responsibility to the businesses
让他们去负责,而这并不奏效
and let them take responsibility, and that’s not working.
我被要求要结束访问了
I’m being asked to wrap up.
两位对于这个议题 想要观众知道什麽?
What do you want the viewers to know about this issue?
我想要观众知道
Well, I would like your viewers to know
美国拥有 同属全世界最安全的粮食系统
that the US has among the safest food systems in the world.
我们计画共同合作 创造出一个更加安全、更加数位化
But we plan to work together to create an even safer, more digital,
更加透明而永续的粮食系统 而这对于消费者将会是好事
transparent, and sustainable food system that’s going to be good for consumers.
对于製造者和地球也都会是好事
It’ll be good for producers, and it will be good for the planet.
我都算不清我听了多少次
I can’t even tell you how many times
制定政策的人 主管和领导者说出这句话
I have heard policymakers, executives, leaders say the phrase,
“美国拥有全世界最安全的粮食系统”
“America has the safest food system in the world.”
但似乎有这个无尽的循环
But there seems to have been this endless cycle
也就是失败、疫情大爆发 召回、染疫和死亡
of failure and outbreaks and recalls and illnesses and deaths.
当我听到政♥治♥人物说
You know, when I hear politicians say,
我们拥有全世界最安全的粮食系统
“We’ve got the safest food system in the world,”
这很可笑 我们并没有全世界最安全的粮食系统
it’s just… it’s laughable. We don’t have the safest food system in the world.
这些病原体是可控的 我们却没有去控制
I mean, these pathogens are controllable. We’re not controlling them.
我们是美国,我们有更高的期待
We’re in the United States. We expect better.
而当我们的粮食供给 让我们失望,更是大大的失望
And when the safety of our food supply lets us down, it lets us down big-time.
(製片人又多送验了 150件的生鸡肉样本)
(其中17%验出沙门氏菌阳性)
(宝凋样本阳性率为29%)
(宝凋坚称其沙门氏菌验出率)
(概与业界平均值相符)
(该公♥司♥表示他们积极寻求)
(降低旗下产品 沙门氏菌的盛行率)
(美国农业部)
此刻政♥府♥对于保护消费者做得不够
Right now, the government is not doing enough to protect consumers.
(美国卫生及公共服务部)
然后消费者,到了那个程度
And then consumers, because the burden is often on them
因为责任通常落在他们身上
when it gets to that level,
他们得要确保在家中 把每个步骤都做得妥善到位
you know, they have to make sure that they’re taking the proper steps at home.
我会说我头号♥避免的食物就是哈密瓜
I would say number one food on my list that I avoid is cantaloupe.
外皮没有办法妥善清理
You cannot properly clean the outside,
刀子这一切下去,一切都太晚了
and once you bring that knife through it, it’s too late.
哈密瓜没有高温杀菌的步骤可用
And there’s no kill step for cantaloupe.
第二是豆芽菜
Number two is sprouts.
每两年就会有重大的疫情大爆发
Every other year, there’s a significant outbreak
完全没有方法好好清洗
where there’s just no way to clean them.
我会说第三是袋装生菜
I would say number three would be bagged lettuce.
你的综合蔬菜
Your spring mix.
不同的综合沙拉
Your different salad mixes.
你未必知道同一袋生菜裡头 溷有多少不同的生菜头
You don’t necessarily know how many heads of lettuce that came from.
就连是否来自同一个地方都不知道
Or do you even know if it came from any one place?
我参与过的疫情大爆发食安桉件
All the outbreaks that I’ve been involved in
产品都是经过三重清洗 装袋后运往全国各地
are triple-washed, bagged, and shipped around the country.
我建议大家买♥♥整颗蔬菜自己洗
You know, buy it in a whole head and wash it yourself.
控制自己的环境
Control your own environment.
(火腿或是香肠)
今天我们点午餐的时候
Today, when we were ordering lunch,
我避免点菜单上有加注小星星的品项
I avoided everything that has that little star on it on the menu
附注写着食用未煮熟的肉类 可能让你暴露在风险中
saying consumption of undercooked meat can expose you to risk.
所以如果有生鱼的话
So there was some raw fish they were serving,
我也会跳过
and I, uh, took a pass on that one.
你需要去决定,自己爱吃生蚝的程度
You need to decide, “Am I a person who loves raw oysters enough
是不是大到愿意承担伴随而来的风险
that I want to take the risks that are associated with raw oysters?”
我不想变成那种晚上出去狂欢
I don’t wanna be one of those people who ends up losing a limb
结果赔上手脚的人
because of, uh, you know, a night out.
是啊
Yeah.
谢谢,多谢
Thank you. Thank you very much.
谢了
Thanks.
(豪华汉堡)
你要吃什麽?
What are you having?
我要吃汉堡排内部 烹调到摄氏68度的汉堡
I’m gonna have a hamburger cooked to 155 degrees internal temperature,
薯条
uh, french fries,
就这样
and that’s it.
好的,瞭解
Okay. You got it.
你去餐厅想要点汉堡
When you go to a restaurant and you want to order a hamburger,
最好的做法就是指定温度
the best thing to do is order to temperature,
因为三分熟、一分熟、全熟 这些都很主观
because medium rare, rare, well-done, those are all subjective.
不能只靠看颜色和有没有血水
You can’t look at color or whether juices run clear.
如果店家说没有温度计 没办法照这样料理的话
And if they say, “We don’t have a thermometer. We can’t cook to that.”
那我就会点别的东西来吃
Then I’d order something else.
我认为当我一开始做这样的工作
I think when I first started doing this kind of work,
我还以为
I kind of thought that,
如果告了够多的人 拿到够多的和解金
you know, if you sued enough people and you took enough money,
这样就会改变他们的行为
that that would change their behavior.
我刚过6♥4♥岁
I just turned 6♥4♥, you know,
而我不觉得有达成我希望做到的事
and I just don’t feel like I’ve accomplished what I was hoping to do.
所以…
So…
因为我以前真的认为…
‘Cause I really did think, you know… I really did think that, you know,
等我做到这个地步了
by the time I got to this stage that,
这种事就不会再发生了
um, you know, this kind of thing wouldn’t be happening anymore.
但还是在发生
But it happens
时时都在发生
all the time.
♪ Buried, banging at your door ♪
(收到马♥勒♥的请♥愿♥后)
(美国农业部决定 禁止在一些鸡肉产品验出沙门氏菌)
(但问题绝非已经解决)
(因为在美国贩售的鸡肉产品 多数于法依然可以含有沙门氏菌)
♪ Don’t hear a sound… ♪
我儿子过世后
After my son died,
我估计要嘛政♥府♥、法律和政策
I assumed that either the government,
或是科学技术会去处理这件事
you know, laws and policies,or science and technology would take care of this.
我们不用像是1993年那样去处理食安
We wouldn’t be dealing with food safety like we’re talking about in 1993.
(戴威勒教授继续专注在)
♪ A rising steam… ♪