Also on the inside Birgitta Jonsdottir
一位激进的冰岛议员
a radical Icelandic MP
她帮维基解密弄到了阿帕切的枪击视频
she helped produce the Apache gunship video for WikiLeaks.
-把他们全杀了 -快点 开火
我深感震惊
I was deeply moved.
我就坐在那哭
I was sitting there and crying,
尤其是我看到那个受伤的人
particularly when I saw the wounded man
想站起来 但他们却想要杀了他
trying to get up and they were hoping that they could shoot him.
如果没有出版自♥由♥
If you don’t have free press.
如果在你的民♥主♥社会中
If you don’t have freedom of information
没有信息自♥由♥
in your democratic society,
那你就是没有人♥权♥
you are not living in a democracy.
丹尼尔和朱利安为公开做过许多斗争
Daniel and Julian fought many battles for openness together.
他是个有使命感的人
He was a man with a mission.
他是我所认识的人中
I mean he was one of the few people I knew
愿意不顾一切地想要做点事
that were willing to do something without thinking first of all,
而不想着从中得利
about how they could maybe profit from it,
或者是以此来维持生计的人
how they could sustain their living from it or whatever.
他愿意跋涉千里
He was willing to go to a great length
只愿某个主意能够见效
just to make sure that this idea worked.
对于一个想将开明带向世界的人
For a man whose mission is to bring openness to the world,
当潘诺勒马想要采访他时
Julian surprisingly,
朱利安非常神奇地
when Panorama approached him,
拒绝了
closed down.
我们反复说服他接受采访
We asked repeatedly for an interview.
他坚决不愿意
He said no.
我们问了他的律师和发言人
We asked his lawyer and his spokesman.
他们也不想接受采访
They didn’t want to take part.
我们问了他的支持者
We asked some of his supporters,
还包括比安卡·杰格[欧委会亲善大使]
including Bianca Jagger,
洁玛尔[社交名媛]
Jemima Marcelle Goldsmith
电影导演肯·罗奇
film director Ken Loach
还有著名记者约翰·皮尔格
and journalist John Pilger
他们都婉拒了我们
They too said no.
朱利安并不是害怕上镜
Julian’s not exactly camera shy.
一家澳大利亚电视台
A TV crew from his native Australia
得到了了解他家史的机会
got a rare insight into his family history.
你的家庭背景如何
What is your background?
你的童年和青年是怎么样的
What is your childhood and your youth?
你上过30所学校是真的吗
Is it true 30 schools?
-37 -是37所
– 37. – 37 schools.
一个漂泊的家庭
An unconventional family life
让他在小时候就一直居无定所
kept him on the move as a child.
作为一个仍然漂泊不定的人
As a man he’s still on the move,
他总是领先于
trying to keep one step ahead
那些让他惧怕的 想要阻止他的人
of the authorities he fears are out to stop him.
真正的天使
Pure angel.
-我 真正的天使 -是的
– Me? A pure angel? – Yes.
我以为是头发的缘故
I thought just the hair.
朱利安喜欢电脑 他十九岁时
Julian loved computers and by the age of 19,
就黑进了美军计算机系统
he was hacking into US military computer systems.
我们在美军的
Yeah, we had a back door in
安全协调中心是有后门的
the US military security coordination centre.
这两年我们都尽在掌握
We had total control over this for two years.
1996年对于24起黑客袭击的指控
He pleaded guilty to 24 hacking related offences
他供认不讳但他免除了牢狱之灾
in 1996 but avoided jail.
十年之后
Ten years later,
掌控维基解密的朱利安又杀了回来
Julian, at the helm of WikiLeaks was back in control,
用互联网直戳权势痛处
using the internet to poke power in the eye.
为了躲避美国的追捕
And to avoid the reach of America,
朱利安选择像瑞典这样的国家
Julian chose to base himself in
做为自己的基地
countries like Sweden,
因为那些国家有着保护信息自♥由♥的法律
attracted by their laws on openness.
在那里同时也能
It was also a place to forge
与其他倡导信息自♥由♥的先驱者进行联盟
alliances with other Freedom of Information campaigners.
信息无法再被任何人控制约束
Information can no longer be controlled.
所以 曾经被掌握在那一小部分位于
So what used to be power in the hands of a small,
里奇·福柯文
信息自♥由♥主义先驱者
金字塔顶端的社会精英们手里的权利
selected elite at the top of the pyramid,
现在已转移到了位于金字塔
is now actually power
底部的普通人的手里
at the base of the pyramid.
整个权利体系完全被颠倒
The entire power has shifted 180 degrees.
在这个体系重新达到新的平衡点之前
And there’s going to be a lots and
会发生非常非常多的冲突和矛盾
lots of struggles before we see equilibrium on this.
美国人没过多久就对
It didn’t take long for
维基解密发动了反击
the Americans to strike back,
并获得了他们在这场斗争中的
claiming their first scalp in t
第一个”战利品”
he battle with WikiLeaks.
就在”阿帕奇事件”的录像
Seven weeks after the release of
被公布的七周后
the Apache gunship video,
二等兵布拉德利·曼宁
private Bradley Manning,
一位美军在伊♥拉♥克♥的前情报分♥析♥员被逮捕
the US intelligence analyst in Iraq was arrested.
维基解密从未表态
WikiLeaks has never said
曼宁是否就是录像的提供者
whether Manning is its source.
但朱利安公开表示保证会对
But Julian is on the record pledging
揭发者提供帮助
support for whistleblowers.
如果他们的身份被暴露
If they are exposed,
采访资料
我们会密切关注他们的处境
then we’ll fight like hell to bring
会不遗余力地帮助他们
attention to their plight
如有必要我们会提供现金支援
and we will send lawyers
并为他们聘请律师
and cash, if necessary,
以此来帮助他们脱离困境
to try get them out of their bad situation.
但几个月过去了
But for months,
维基解密既没有派遣律师也没有提供现金
WikiLeaks sent neither lawyers nor cash.
他们曾到过一笔五万美元的资金捐助
A figure of $50,000 was mentioned.
但至今 布拉德利·曼宁的法律基金
But so far, the Bradley Manning legal
只收到了维基解密提供的
fund has only received
一万五千一百美元的捐助
$ 15,100 from wikiLeaks.
如果你站在自己的立场
If you look at from the certain
来看待这件事 那似乎…[很不公平]
point of you, it looks like…
我们的或说是维基机密的援助资金
Because our payment or WikiLeaks’
之所以会延迟那么久到账
payment was delayed for so long,
是因为世界各地的人[揭发者]
many other people around
都能分享这笔资金
the world had contributed.
同时 每一笔需要由维基解密
And with every contribution the amount
提供的捐助金额
that was needed from WikiLeaks
都在慢慢变小 数目在减少
grew less, you know, decreased.
但是 那也不是一个正确的看法
But that’s not the right attitude either.
曼宁现年23岁
Manning, now 23,
他显然是被一名前电脑黑客给出♥卖♥♥♥的
was apparently shopped by a former computer hacker.
据说 他当时一边从美国密档数据库内
The word is he copied the video and
拷贝那段视频和其他大量的机密文件
a mass of other secrets from classified US databases,
一边在听Lady Gaga的歌♥曲
while listening to Lady Gaga.
如果罪名成立
If convicted he could
他会被判处五十二年的监禁
face 52 years in prison.
如果布拉德利·曼宁是
If Bradley Manning is the
那份档案的来源的话
source for that material,
那他才是真正的揭发者
he is the true whistleblower.
维基解密只是
WikiLeaks only relayed that
将那份档案转发给了公众 基于这点
material to the public and in that respect,
那个人就应该获得大家的全力支持
that person is the one that should receive all the support.
自从曼宁被捕的那一刻起
From the moment manning was arrested,
留给我们的时间就已经不多了
the clock was ticking.
在下一次解密之前
Could Americans close down
美国人能关闭这个网站吗
the site before the next leak?
维基解密已对成千上万的档案进行过核对
WikiLeaks was sitting on thousands and thousands of documents,
其中就包括了阿富汗战争的内♥幕♥消息
including the inside story of the Afghan war,
内部报告和作战日志
reports and logs,
而且这些都是机密文件
almost all classified.
我们现在去哪里
Where are we heading now?
我们去《卫报》报社
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