Yes, because this was work of exploration,
不是为了研发武器
it was not the preparation of a weapon.
你是说这更像是一次学术探险？
You mean it was more of an academic excursion?
不 能否制♥造♥出氢弹 这不是一个学术问题
No, it is not an academic thing, whether you can build a hydrogen bomb.
而是生死问题
It’s a matter of life and death.
到了1942年 你积极推动
By 1942, you were actively pushing the development
氢弹的研发 对吧？
of the hydrogen bomb, weren’t you?
“推动”这个词不太恰当
Pushing is not the right word.
支持并致力于此 是的
Supporting it and working on it, yes.
那么 什么时候这些道德焦虑变得如此强烈
So when did these moral qualms become so strong
令你积极反对发展氢弹？
that you actively opposed the development of the hydrogen bomb?
当有人建议这是美国的国策时
When it was suggested that it be the policy of the United States
不惜一切代价制♥造♥这些东西
to make these things at all costs,
无视这些武器之间的平衡
without regard to the balance between these weapons
把原子武器作为我们军♥火♥库的一部分
and atomic weapons as part of our arsenal.
这跟道德焦虑有什么关系？
What do moral qualms have to do with that?
-这跟道德焦虑有什么关系？
-是的
-What do moral qualms have to do with it?
-Yes.
奥本海默想拥有原♥子♥弹♥
Oppenheimer wanted to own the atomic bomb.
他想成为那个撬动地球的人
He wanted to be The Man Who Moved the Earth.
他说要把核魔鬼放回瓶子里
He talks about putting the nuclear genie back in the bottle.
好吧 我来告诉你 我知道
Well, I’m here to tell you that I know,
J·罗伯特·奥本海默 如果他能重新来过 他还是会这么做
J. Robert Oppenheimer, if he could do it all over, he’d do it all the same.
你知道他从来没有说过他对广岛事件感到后悔吗？
You know he’s never once said that he regrets Hiroshima?
他会再做一遍 为什么？
He’d do it all over. Why?
因为这让他成为有史以来最重要的人
Because it made him the most important man who ever lived.
我们自♥由♥地使用原♥子♥弹♥
We freely used the atomic bomb.
事实上 博士 你协助选择了目标
In fact, Doctor, you assisted in selecting the target
向日本投下原♥子♥弹♥ 不是吗？
to drop the atomic bomb on Japan, didn’t you?
– 是的……
– 那么 你说 你不知道
-Yes…
-Well then, you knew, did you not,
把原♥子♥弹♥投向你选定的目标
that by dropping that atomic bomb on the target you selected,
成千上万的平民会被杀害或受伤 对吗？
that thousands of civilians would be killed or injured. Is that correct?
是的 没想到那么多
Yes, not as many as turned out.
噢 那么有多少人死伤呢？
Oh. Then how many were killed or injured?
-7万
-7万 广岛和……
-70,000.
-70,000, both Hiroshima and…
-两者合计11万
-在两颗核弹爆♥炸♥当天？
-110,000 to both.
-On the day of each bombing?
-是的
-是的
-Yes.
-Yes.
接下来的几周和几年呢？
And in the weeks and years that followed?
估计在5万到10万之间
It has been put at somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000.
至少有22万人死亡
220,000 dead, at least.
-是的
-对此有道德上的怀疑吗？
-Yes.
-Any moral scruples about that?
糟糕透顶
Terrible ones.
但是你在这里作证说广岛原♥子♥弹♥爆♥炸♥非常成功
But yet you testified in here that the bombing of Hiroshima was very successful.
-技术上是成功的
-噢 技术上来说非常成功
-Technically successful.
-Oh! Technically it was very successful.
而且据说它还加快了战争的结束
And it is also alleged to have helped to end the war.
你会支持在广岛投下氢弹吗？
Would you have been supportive of the dropping of a hydrogen bomb on Hiroshima?
这根本说不通
That would make no sense at all.
-为什么？
-目标太小
-Why?
-The target is too small.
好吧 假设在日本有个目标
Well, supposing there had been a target in Japan
大到足以需要动用热核武器
big enough for a thermonuclear weapon,
你会反对投下氢弹吗？
would you have been opposed to the dropping of it?
我从来没遇上这样的问题
This was not a problem with which I was confronted.
好吧 我现在就来和你对质 先生
Well, I’m confronting you with it now, sir.
这都是他计划的一部分
It was all part of his plan.
他想要的是自大狂那种光荣而虚伪的罪恶感
He wanted the glorious, insincere guilt of the self-important
戴着他妈的皇冠然后说
to wear like a fucking crown and say,
“不 我们不能走这条路” 即使他知道我们必须这么做
“No, we cannot go down this road,” even as he knew we’d have to.
你会出于道德上的顾虑
Would you have been opposed to the dropping of a thermonuclear weapon
而反对投下氢弹吗？
-是的 我相信我会的 先生
on Japan because of moral scruples?
-Yes, I believe I would, sir.
你是否反对在广岛投下原♥子♥弹♥
Did you oppose the dropping of an atomic bomb on Hiroshima
因为道德上的顾虑？
because of moral scruples?
-我们开始……
-不 你 你 你 你！
-We set forth our…
-No, you, you, you, you!
我在问你……
我设了……
-I’m asking you…
-I set…
-你 你 你！
-我陈述了我们的观点
-You, you, you!
-I set forth our arguments
反对投下 但我没有赞成
against dropping it, but I did not endorse them.
你是说在日以继夜地制♥造♥了三年的炸♥弹♥之后
You mean after working night and day for three years building the bomb,
你竟然反对使用它？
you then argued against the use of it?
战争部长问我 科学家的观点是什么
I was asked by the Secretary of War what the views of scientists were.
我给了他们反对和赞成的意见
I gave them the views against and the views for.
你支持投下原♥子♥弹♥
You supported the dropping of the atom bomb
在日本 不是吗？
-你什么意思……
on Japan, didn’t you?
-What do you mean…
-你支持它……
-支持？你什么意思
-You supported it…
-What do you mean, support?
你帮助选择了目标 不是吗？
Well, you helped pick the target, didn’t you?
我做了我的工作 我在洛斯阿♥拉♥莫斯不是做决策的
I did my job. I was not in a policy-making position at Los Alamos.
要我做什么我都会去做
I would have done anything I was asked to do.
那么 你也会制♥造♥氢弹 不是吗？
Well, then, you would have built the H-bomb too, wouldn’t you?
-但是我不能……
-我没问你这个 博士！
-But I couldn’t…
-I didn’t ask you that, Doctor!
你在苏联核试验后参与撰写的总结评审报告中说:
And the GAC report, which you co-authored after the Soviet atomic test said:
“氢弹永远不应该制♥造♥出来!”
“A super bomb should never be built!”
我们的意思是 我的意思是……
What we meant, what I meant…
-什么 你 谁？
-看 我的意思是……
-What you, who?
-Look, what I meant…
谁？
Who?
那么 俄♥罗♥斯♥人难道不会为增强实力而不择手段吗？
Well, wouldn’t the Russians do anything to increase their strength?
如果我们这么做了 他们也必须这么做！
If we did it, they would have to do it!
我们的努力只会助长他们的努力,
Our efforts would only fuel their efforts,
就像原♥子♥弹♥一样！
just as it had with the atomic bomb!
就像原♥子♥弹♥一样！说得好
Just as it had with the atomic bomb, exactly!
1945年没有道德顾忌 1949年却顾忌重重
No moral scruples in 1945, plenty in 1949.
奥本海默博士……
Dr. Oppenheimer…
你什么时候对氢弹产生强烈的道德信念的？
when did your strong moral convictions develop with respect to the hydrogen bomb?
当我逐渐明白
When it became clear to me
我们会倾向于使用任何我们拥有的武器
that we would tend to use any weapon we had.
J·罗伯特·奥本海默 我给了他想要的
J. Robert Oppenheimer the martyr, I gave him exactly what he wanted.
因为“三位一体”而名垂青史
To be remembered for Trinity,
不是广岛！
not Hiroshima!
不是长崎！
Not Nagasaki!
他应该感谢我
He should be thanking me.
可 他没有
Well, he’s not.
我们还有足够的票吗？
Do we still have enough votes?
还是说我职业生涯的巅峰时刻
Or is the crowning moment of my career
即将成为我一生中最公开的羞辱？
about to become the most public humiliation of my life?
全体参议员要投票了
Full Senate’s about to vote.
你会顺利过关的
You’ll scrape through.
太棒了 那就召集该死的媒体
Great, then gather the fucking press.
罗伯特·奥本海默博士 本委员会
Dr. J. Robert Oppenheimer, this board,
听取了你的证词
having heard testimony from you
以及你的许多现任和前任同事的证据
and many of your current and former colleagues,
我们一致得出结论 你是一个忠诚的公民
has come to the unanimous conclusion that you are a loyal citizen.
但是……
However…
鉴于你们一直有联♥系♥
In the light of your continuing associations,
无视这个国家的安全机构
and disregard for the security apparatus of this country,
再加上你在氢弹项目上
together with your somewhat disturbing conduct
令人不安的行为
on the hydrogen bomb program,
以及你对委员会的某些回答
and the regrettable lack of candor
令人遗憾的缺乏坦诚
in certain of your responses to this board,
我们以二比一的投票结果