has apparently come down with colitis.
所以我们还是开始威廉·博登吧
So we’ll proceed with William Borden instead.
博登先生 欢迎 请坐
Mr. Borden, welcome. Please take a seat.
博登先生
Mr. Borden,
在你调查奥本海默博士期间
during your investigation into Dr. Oppenheimer,
你得出什么结论了吗？
did you reach certain conclusions?
-有的
-你是否曾在信中
-I did.
-And did there come a time
向联邦调查局的胡佛先生
when you expressed those conclusions in a letter to Mr. J. Edgar Hoover,
表达过这些结论
-没错
of the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
-That is correct.
在写这封信之前 你是否与原子能委员会的人
Prior to the writing of the letter, did you discuss the writing of the letter
讨论过这封信的写法？
with anybody attached to the Atomic Energy Commission?
-没有
-很好
-I did not.
-Excellent.
-你有那封信的复本吗？
-我面前有一份
-Do you have a copy of the letter?
-I have one in front of me.
请您读一读 先生？
Would you please be so kind as to read it, sir?
“亲爱的胡佛先生 我写这封信的目的
“Dear Mr. Hoover, the purpose of this letter
-“是表达……”
-对不起 对不起 如果我可以……
-“is to state…”
-I’m sorry, I’m sorry, if I could have…
中断的目的是什么? 他只是要读这封信
What is the purpose of the delay? He’s simply going to read the letter.
主席先生 这是我第一次看到这封信
Mr. Chairman, this is the first I’ve seen of this letter.
我看到这里至少有一份声明
And I see statements here, at least one,
我认为没有人愿意看到这种事情被记录在案
of a kind that I don’t think anyone would like to see go into the record.
这些都是以前从未有过的指控
These are accusations that have not previously been made,
不在尼科拉斯的起诉书中
that are not part of the indictment from Nichols.
我觉得这种指控不该出现在这里
Accusations of a kind that I don’t think belong here.
证人主动写了这封信
The witness wrote this letter on his own initiative,
列出已经摆在委员会面前的证据
laying out evidence that has already been before the board.
他的结论是有效的证词
His conclusions are valid testimony,
就像奥本海默博士的朋友得出的正面结论一样
just like the positive conclusions of friends of Dr. Oppenheimer.
这是双向的
It cuts both ways.
律师收到这封信多久了？
How long has counsel been in possession of this letter?
我不认为我应该被你交叉询问 加里森先生
I don’t think I should be subject to cross-examination by you, Mr. Garrison.
加里森先生 鉴于我们委员会成员都读过这封信,
Mr. Garrison, given that we on the board have all read the letter,
记录在案不是更好吗？
wouldn’t it be better to have it in the record?
让我们继续
Let’s proceed.
“亲爱的胡佛先生
“Dear Mr. Hoover,
“我写这封信的目的是表达我的观点
“the purpose of this letter is to state my opinion,
基于对现有机密证据的多年研究
“based upon years of study of the available classified evidence,
“很有可能
“that, more probably than not,
J·罗伯特·奥本海默是苏联特工
“J. Robert Oppenheimer is an agent of the Soviet Union.
下面的结论是合理的
“The following conclusions are justified.
第一 从1929年到1942年之间 很有可能
“One, between 1929 and 1942, more probably than not,
“J·罗伯特·奥本海默是一个死硬派共♥产♥主义者
“J. Robert Oppenheimer was a sufficiently hardened communist
他自愿向苏联提供情报
“that he volunteered information to the Soviets.
”第二 极有可能
“Two, more probably than not,
“从那以后 他就开始充当间谍
“he has since been functioning as an espionage agent.
“第三
“Three.
“更有可能的是 他此后一直按照苏联的指令行事
“More probably than not, he has since acted under a Soviet directive
”影响美国的军事政策”
“in influencing United States military policy.”
-对不起 罗伯特
-“原子能 情报和……”
-I’m sorry, Robert.
-“Atomic energy, intelligence and…”
难道没人能告诉这里发生的事情的真♥相♥
Is anyone ever going to tell the truth about what’s happening here?
我们现在听取大卫·希尔博士的证词
We will now hear from Dr. David Hill.
希尔博士 你愿意发表声明吗？
Dr. Hill, would you care to make a statement?
谢谢
Thank you.
我被要求为刘易斯·施特劳斯作证
I’ve been asked to testify about Lewis Strauss,
一个在政♥府♥高层任职多年的人
a man who has given years of service in high positions of government,
他以认真、勤奋、聪明而著称
and who is known to be earnest, hard-working, and intelligent.
我要表达的是我自己的观点
The views I have to express are my own,
但我相信我所说的一切将有助于说明为什么
but I believe that much I have to say will help to indicate why
这个国家的大多数科学家更愿意看到施特劳斯先生
most of the scientists in this country would prefer to see Mr. Strauss
完全退出政♥府♥
completely out of government.
你指的是某些科学家的敌意
You’re referring to the hostility of certain scientists,
指向施特劳斯先生 因为他致力于公共安全
directed toward Mr. Strauss, because of his commitment to security,
就像奥本海默事件所表明的那样？
as demonstrated in the Oppenheimer affair?
不
No.
是因为他对奥本海默博士的报复心理
Because of the personal vindictiveness he demonstrated against Dr. Oppenheimer.
肃静! 肃静！
Order! Order!
在这个国家的大多数科学家看来
It appears to most scientists around this country
罗伯特·奥本海默现在正在被嘲笑
that Robert Oppenheimer is now being pilloried,
因为他诚实地表达了自己的观点 所以经历了一场严峻的磨难
and put through an ordeal, because he expressed his honest opinions.
布♥什♥博士 我以为我是为国家服务
Dr. Bush, I thought I was performing a service to my country
当我听取这个案子时
-在这个国家 没有委员会
when hearing this case.
-No board, in this country,
因为一个人表达了自己强烈的意见 所以应该对他进行审判
should sit in judgment of a man because he expressed his strong opinions.
如果你想审查那个案子 你们应该审查我
If you want to try that case, you should try me.
对不起 先生们 可能我……过于激动
Excuse me, gentlemen, if I’ve… become stirred.
但我是这么想的
But I am.
希尔博士 我们听说施特劳斯先生并没有提出指控
Dr. Hill, we’ve already heard that Mr. Strauss did not bring the charges,
或者参加对奥本海默博士的听证会
or participate in the hearings against Dr. Oppenheimer.
奥本海默事件是……
The Oppenheimer matter was…
主要由刘易斯·施特劳斯策划、发起并操纵的
initiated, and carried through, largely through the animus of Lewis Strauss.
奥本海默把施特劳斯推下了神坛
Oppenheimer made mincemeat out of Strauss’s position
在向挪威出口同位素的问题上
on the shipments of isotopes to Norway,
施特劳斯永远不会原谅他的公众羞辱
and Strauss never forgave him this public humiliation.
他们之间的另一个争论围绕着他们在判断上的分歧
Another controversy between them centered around their differences in judgment
关于氢弹对国♥家♥安♥全♥的作用
on how the H-bomb would contribute to national security.
施特劳斯借口人员安全系统 以便
Strauss turned to the personnel security system in order to
破坏奥本海默的成就
destroy Oppenheimer’s effectiveness,
施特劳斯找来了几个野心勃勃的人
and Strauss was able to find a few ambitious men
他们也不同意奥本海默的立场 并且嫉妒
who also disagreed with Oppenheimer’s positions and envied him
他在政界的威望
his prestige in government circles.
我一直认为 而且现在仍然认为他忠于美国
I’ve always assumed, and still assume, that he is loyal to the United States.
我相信 我也会一直相信
I believe this, and I shall believe it,
除非我看到相反的确凿证据
until I see very conclusive proof to the opposite.
你是否相信奥本海默博士存在安全风险？
Do you or do you not believe that Dr. Oppenheimer is a security risk?
在很多情况下 我看到奥本海默博士的行为
In a great number of cases, I have seen Dr. Oppenheimer act in a way
对我来说 非常难以理解
which was, to me, exceedingly hard to understand.
我在许多问题上完全不同意他的观点
I thoroughly disagreed with him in numerous issues,
坦白地说 他的行为让我感到迷惑不解
and his actions frankly appeared to me confused and complicated.
从这个意义上讲 我希望看到这个国家的切身利益
To this extent, I feel I want to see the vital interests of this country
掌握在我更了解、更信任的人手中
in hands which I understand better, and therefore trust more.
-谢谢你 博士
-谢谢
-Thank you, Doctor.
-Thank you.
对不起
I’m sorry.
你♥他♥妈♥的跟他握手了？
You shook his fucking hand!?
噢 我会朝他脸上吐口水
Oh, I would have spit in his face.
我不确定委员会是否喜欢这样
I’m not sure the Board would have appreciated that.
难道你还不够绅士吗？
Is it not gentlemanly enough for you?
好吧 我觉得你们都太他妈绅士了
Well, I think you’re all being too goddamn gentlemanly.
格雷委员会一定知道罗伯在做什么 他们为什么不干脆把他关起来？
Gray must see what Robb is doing. Why doesn’t he just shut him down?
还有你 居然和泰勒握手
And you, shaking Teller’s hand.
你别再扮演烈士了
You need to stop playing the martyr.
根据原子能委员会目前的指导方针 你今天会给奥本海默博士颁发安全许可吗？
Under the current AEC guidelines, would you clear Dr. Oppenheimer today?
根据我对《原子能法案》的理解
Under my interpretation of the Atomic Energy Act,
我在1942年聘请奥本海默博士时 该法案还不存在
which did not exist when I hired Dr. Oppenheimer in 1942,
如果我是委员会成员 我今天不会给他颁发安全许可
I would not clear him today if I were on the commission.
很好 谢谢你 将军 就这样
Good. Thank you, General. That is all.
但我不认为我会颁给他们中任何一个人
But I don’t think I’d clear any of those guys.
就这样
That’s all.
奥本海默博士在选拔中不承担任何责任
Dr. Oppenheimer had no responsibility in the selection
包括克劳斯·福克斯的安全许可 对吧？
or the clearance of Klaus Fuchs, did he?
是 完全没有
No. None at all.
你今天并不想在离开时留给委员会一个印象
And you wouldn’t want to leave this board with any suggestion today that
你在这里质疑他参与洛斯阿♥拉♥莫斯的行动期间
you’re here questioning his basic loyalty to the United States
对美国的忠诚？
in the operation of Los Alamos?
绝对不是 我希望我没有让任何人产生误解
By no means. I hope I didn’t lead anyone to believe otherwise for an instant.
谢谢你 将军