和父母姐妹的关系不算亲密…- 指挥官
l never had any real intimacy with my parents, my sisters–
你认为
Do you feel…
那些犹太人真的该死吗
…that the Jews you murdered deserved their fate?
我一直被教导说犹太人是德国的敌人
l have always been taught that the Jew was an enemy of Germany.
所以当你受命把集中营变成死亡营时
So when you were ordered to turn your prison camp into a death camp…
你从没想过那是错误的做法
…you never once thought what you were doing was wrong?
我是一名党卫军员
l was an SS man.
我们受训要不假思索的服从命令
We were trained to obey orders without thinking.
一名捕鼠者会认为杀死老鼠是错误的吗
Does a rat-catcher think it is wrong to kill rats?
捕鼠者应该杀死老鼠
A rat catcher catching rats.
是这种观点促成了这场全国性的大屠♥杀♥
ls that the kind of thinking it takes to carry out state-sanctioned mass murder?
你们不仅盲从还认为那些受害者不算人
Not just blind obedience, but also a belief that your victims are not human?
那我问问你 广岛又算怎么回事
Let me ask you this. What was Hiroshima?
是不是你们的医学实验
Was it not your medical experiment?
美国会不会也在德国扔个原♥子♥弹♥
Would America have dropped bombs as easily on Germany…
就像在日本那样 杀死无辜的平民呢
…as it did upon Japan, killing as many civilians as possible?
我看不会 因为美国人认为
l think not. To an American’s sensibility…
白人孩子比日本孩子更算得上是人类
…a Caucasian child is considerably more human than a Japanese child.
美国当时与日本出于交战状态
America was at war with Japan.
日本不宣而战袭击美国
A country that had attacked it without provocation.
而你们是杀死自己几百万同胞
You murdered millions of your own citizens.
那你们为什么要把美籍日本人
What about the American citizens of the Japanese race…
关进集中营实施你们的”保护性监禁”呢
…put into ”protective custody” in your own concentration camps?
那是错误的
That was wrong.
那为什么美籍德国人和美籍意大利人没有被关押
Why was this not done to Americans of ltalian and German descent?
我说了那是错误的
l said it was wrong.
那你们自己部队里的黑人军官又怎样
What about the Negro officers in your own army?
你们允许他们直接作战吗
Are they allowed to command troops in combat?
允许他们和白人同坐一辆巴士吗
Can they sit on the same buses as the whites?
在我看来你们的种族隔离制度和我们的反犹太主义:
Segregation laws in your country and anti-Semitic laws in mine:
不过是五十步笑百步
Are they not just a difference of degree?
你听好了 从本世纪开始
Let me tell you, from the beginning of the century…
到一战再到希♥特♥勒♥上台
…through the First War until the rise of Hitler…
那些犹太商人的渗透
…the freemasonry of the Jewish merchants…
会不断削弱德国经济
…consistently undermined the German economy…
并损害我国的国际地位因此我们才指定反犹太法
…and the nationhood of the fatherland. That is why we made anti-Semitic laws.
可是你 我的朋友为什么总是不理解反犹太主义为什么呢
And why you, my friend, can never understand anti-Semitism. Why?
因为你是个犹太人
Because you are a Jew.
辩方律师准备好了吗
ls defense counsel ready to proceed?
准备好了 法官大人
Ready, Your Honor.
绍克尔先生 从1942年3月起你负责为战争
Herr Sauckel, from March, 1942, you were in charge of procuring labor…
征用劳工 是不是
…for the war effort. ls that right?
(德语)是
Ja.
那你是否知道根据海牙公约
You are aware that it was a crime under the Hague Convention…
强征别国公民到德国劳动是一种犯罪行为
…to forcibly deport citizens of other countries to Germany as workers?
(德语)是
Ja.
在此期间与多少外国劳工被你们征用
How many foreign workers came into Germany during your tenure?
大约500万
Approximately five million.
有多少是自愿的
And how many of them came voluntarily?
大约20万
Perhaps 200,000.
你是否曾发布这些文件要求善待工人
Did you issue these directives calling for their decent treatment?
是的
l did.
我要求把这些文件列为物证作为证据之一
l ask that these be marked as exhibits and accepted into evidence.
请求批准
So ordered.
绍克尔先生 是谁命令你征集这些工人的
Herr Sauckel, who ordered you to procure these workers?
施佩尔
Speer.
阿尔伯特-施佩尔 军备部长-是他给你下的命令
Albert Speer, Minister of Armaments. He gave orders to you?
(德语)是的
Ja.
你也执行了 -(德语)是的
And you had to obey them? – Ja.
所有劳工都是按照施佩尔的命令征集的
Every worker you brought in, it was under Speer’s orders?
是的
lt was.
没有问题了
No further questions.
我知道这不符合常规 所以
l know this is unorthodox, Mr. Dodd, to request an audience with you…
所以我想和盘问我的检察官见面
…the man assigned to cross-examine me.
整个审讯都不符合常规 施佩尔博士
There’s nothing very orthodox about this whole trial, Dr. Speer.
我的律师说服不要承认犯下战争罪
My lawyer’s trying to talk me out of confessing to war crimes…
以免被判处死刑
…that might incur the death penalty.
但是我不想为了活命而掩盖真♥相♥
l do not wish to hide the truth just to save my life…
不想在悔恨中度过余生
…only to hate myself for the rest of that life.
我希望其他被告也能这么想-有些人是的
l wish other defendants shared that view. – Some of them do.
但是很多人还是受戈林的摆布
Many are still under Goring’s influence.
他是妨碍其他被告认罪的
He’s your chief rival for the souls of other defendants…
最大障碍
…if l may put it so dramatically.
审问戈林的是首席检察官 杰克逊检察官
Goring was cross-examined by the chief prosecutor, Justice Jackson…
而盘问我的是你 他的副手
…while l am to be questioned by you, a subordinate.
其他被告注意到了这种差别
This difference was noticed by the other defendants.
他们认为这种安排表明我的地位低于戈林
ln their eyes, it puts me in an inferior status to Goring.
这种衡量很奇怪 施佩尔博士
That’s a peculiar measure of status, Dr. Speer.
对德国战犯不奇怪
Not to a German war criminal.
我希望您对此不要介意
l hope you don’t have a problem with it.
不 不 这并不伤害我的自尊
No. l’ve got no ego riding on this.
我会把你的要求提交给杰克逊检察官的
l’ll present your request to my superior, Mr. Jackson.
施佩尔博士 你是否反对绍克尔征集劳工
Dr. Speer, did you disapprove of Sauckel’s recruitment of labor?
正相反
On the contrary.
我非常感谢他为我征集的所有劳工
l was grateful to Sauckel for every worker he provided.
每当缺乏工人而无法完成
When we failed to meet armament quotas…
军备定额时 我会责怪绍克尔
…because of shortage of workers, l would blame Sauckel.
你是否想把责任局限于你的职责范围之内呢
Do you wish to limit your responsibility to your own particular sphere of work?
不 这场战争带来的是一场巨大的灾难
No. This war has brought an inconceivable catastrophe.
我本人作为帝国领导层的重要成员
As an important member of the leadership of the Reich…
我愿意为德国人♥民♥所受的灾难承担责任
…l share in the total responsibility for the disaster of the German people.
施佩尔博士 临近战争结束时
Dr. Speer, near the end of the war, did you not refuse to carry out…
你是否违反希♥特♥勒♥的命令 没有把德国炸平呢
…Hitler’s order to raze Germany to the ground?
我无意把战争时期的这一行动
l’ve no intention of using my actions during that phase of the war…
最为我自己辩护的理由
…to help me in my personal defense.
但我希望坐在审判席上的人
But l would like those who sit in judgment of me…
能够了解那个时期
…to understand that period.
1945年3月希♥特♥勒♥丧心病狂地作出决定
ln March of 1945, Hitler intended, deliberately…
如果一旦战败 就消灭德国境内所有形式的生命
…to destroy the means of life for his own people if the war were lost.
他说 “让盟军除了焦土一无所获”
He said, ”Let the Allies conquer nothing but ashes.”
可你违抗了他的命令 还给他递交了这份备忘录
But you resisted his wishes, sending him instead this memorandum.
请你向法庭大声宣读一下
Would you read it to the court, please?
“任何人都没有权力毁灭工业设施
”Nobody has the right to destroy industrial plants…
“煤矿、发电厂和其他设施
”…coal mines, electrical plants, and other facilities.
“我们无权实施可能影响人♥民♥生存的破坏行动
”We have no right to carry out destruction which might affect the life of the people.
“署名 施佩尔”
”Signed, Speer.”
反对希♥特♥勒♥的人都被枪毙了
We have heard here that people were shot for disagreeing with Hitler.
有这事吗
ls this true?
是有过
That did happen.
而你不但违抗希♥特♥勒♥的命令
And yet, not only did you disagree with him…
还在1945年初制订了一个计划暗♥杀♥希♥特♥勒♥
…but early in 1945 you actually made a plan to assassinate Hitler.
什么
He what?
是不是真的
ls that not so?
是的 是真的
Yes, it is so.
叛徒!
Traitor!
确有此事
lt is so…
因为我认为他已经变成了疯狂的破坏者
…because of what l viewed as his insane destructiveness.
你是怎么做的
What did you do?
计划是什么
What was your plan?
我知道在帝国总理府花♥园♥里
l knew of an air-intake shaft…
有一个通风井是用来给地堡通风的
…in the Reich Chancellery garden that ventilated the Fuhrerbunker below.
我找到军备部一个主管 对他说:
l went to the head of my munitions department and said:
“只有一个方法能结束战争”
”There’s only one way to end this war.”…
我让他帮我
…and asked him to get me…
弄到一罐毒气打算放到通风系统里
…a poison gas to drop into the ventilating system.
可我再去花♥园♥时 通风井上面加盖了
But the next time l went there, they had built a 12-foot chimney…
12英尺高的保护性烟囱 还有党卫军在那里巡逻
…protecting the ventilator, and SS guards were patrolling there.
所以失败了
So it came to nothing.
首席检察官
Mr. Chief Prosecutor?
你承认该为德国主要政策的制定负责
You acknowledge responsibility for Germany’s large policies…