我该替他取什么名字？
“What could I call him?
昆虫侠？不够戏剧化
Insect-man?” Didn’t sound dramatic.
苍蝇侠？不够震撼
“Fly-man?” Didn’t have it.
蚊子侠？
“Mosquito-man?”
然后我说“蜘蛛侠”
And then I said, “Spider-man.”
《惊奇幻想》
就许多方面来说蜘蛛侠是第一个青少年超级英雄
Spider-man is, in many ways, the first teenage superhero.
斯坦和史蒂夫的设定是
Quesada: What Stan and Steve did was
彼得·帕克戴上面具后就变成蜘蛛侠
Peter Parker put on a mask and became Spider-man,
但脱掉面具后他仍得面对彼得·帕克的问题
but when that mask comes off, he still has all the problems of Peter Parker.
等等再来聊蜘蛛侠
Vancamp: We’ll get to Spider-man,
我们先谈谈彼得·帕克
but let’s get to know Peter Parker.
这个角色觉得他有责任要拯救邻居
This character felt the responsibility to save his neighborhood.
斯坦让蜘蛛侠自己洗蜘蛛装
Stan had Spider-man launder his costume.
还让他生病
He had him get a cold. No superhero had ever gotten a cold.
从没有超级英雄感冒过
No superhero had ever gotten a cold.
他没有肌肉
He wasn’t rippling with muscles.
他只是个被蜘蛛咬伤的孩子
He was just a kid who was bitten by a spider.
我曾被蜜蜂攻击过但我没办成蜜蜂侠
When I was attacked by a swarm of bees, I did not become Bee-man.
他只是个典型的青少年
He’s just the typical teenager,
没人知道他就是蜘蛛侠
and nobody would know that guy is really Spider-man.
怪物 公敌
如果你想想科比李和迪特科的黄金年代
If you think of the kind of on-fire years for Kirby and Lee and Ditko…
接连创作佳作
Kirby: Creating titles just one after another.
在那之后 我就很少见到我父亲
Very rarely saw my father after that point.
他们接着想出的主题是
The next ones that they came up with … Thor and Ant-man.
雷神和蚁人
Thor and Ant-man.
同一个月 钢铁侠出现了
In the same month thereafter, Iron Man…
奇异博士
Oswalt: Dr. Strange…
弗瑞中士和他的呼啸突击队
Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos,
后来演变成尼克弗瑞和神盾特工局
which would later beget Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.
集结许多角色的复仇者联盟
The Avengers… – Brought a bunch of those characters together.
Ｘ战警
the X-Men.
两个都在同一个月出版
Brevoort: Again, both coming out the same month.
这么多创作 而且都很成功一个接着一个
So much invention, so many home runs. Boom, boom, boom, boom.
所有创作都来自斯坦
Stan was basically writing everything.
然而 他在跟这群才华洋溢的人共事
However, he was working with these immensely talented people.
我认为再多的话也不足以赞美杰克·科比和史蒂夫·迪特科
Quesada: I don’t think there’s enough that can be said about Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko.
如果漫画艺术家有一座拉什莫尔山
If there’s a Mount Rushmore of comic-book artists,
史蒂夫·迪特科和杰克·科比绝对会被刻在上面
Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby are definitely carved on it.
科比和迪特科打造出漫威的全世界
Well, Kirby and Ditko made the overall world of Marvel.
杰克让故事变得更动感
Smith: Jack made things dynamic … big arms coming in your face.
巨大的手臂朝你的脸挥过去
big arms coming in your face.
每个角色都栩栩如生
You know, every character was coming at you.
我父亲把漫画当作电影的脚本
Kirby: My father … he saw comic books as story boards for movies.
他早就看出潜力
He very early on saw the potential.
史蒂夫·迪特科就是蜘蛛侠的定义
Green: Steve Ditko was the definition of Spider-man.
迪特科笔下的蜘蛛侠
The way that Ditko drew him,
非常弱不禁风 身材修长且古怪
he’s so thin and gangly and long and awkward.
史蒂夫负责蜘蛛侠和奇异博士
Steve was Spider-man and Dr. Strange,
其他的则是杰克
and everything else was Jack.
这三个人创作出这么多角色
The fact that that many came out of three guys …
那真是太神奇了
there was some alchemy going on.
《雷神》 突然的天神
令人惊奇的是他们在如此短的时间内
What’s amazing is how much of this came about
就创作出这么多作品
in such a short period of time.
世界上每个创作者都感到不可思议
There’s not a creator in the world that just doesn’t sit back and go, “wow.”
这么多角色
The number of characters
托德·麦克法兰《蜘蛛侠》作家兼艺术家
获得了如此高的声望
that have gone on to the prestige that they have …
如果我们能创作出二到三个角色
if all of us could do two or three characters,
我们就会心满意足
we would all be happy.
他创造出这么多的角色
Here’s a guy who created a field of characters
我很难相信
that I find it hard to believe
未来有人能与他比肩
anybody will ever be able to replicate.
令人惊叹
It’s staggering.
马丁非常高兴
Martin was very happy,
他从没叫我们走回老路
and he never did say, “go back to the old style.”
他很聪明 他不会要求我们改变
He was a smart guy. He wasn’t about to say, “let’s change them.”
没有宣传 世上最糟糕的销♥售♥
No promotion, the worst distribution in the world.
他们从一无所有打造出巨大的成功
From nothing at all, they built up this huge success.
美国准备好要迎接超级英雄的复苏
America was ready for a revival of the superhero.
那叫做漫威漫画时代
It was called the marvel age of comics.
漫威漫画
我们在发想自己的角色和问题
We were dreaming up our own characters and our own problems,
但你肯定会受到
but of course, you can’t help but be affected
当时时事的影响
by what’s going on in the world.
当时我们的文化受到反文化影响
Bendis: As our culture gave way to counterculture,
比如政♥府♥对媒体娱乐的控管
things like government seals on media and entertainment
为自♥由♥言论罢♥工♥
变得越来越不利
were becoming less of a plus and more of a negative.
于是我去找我的出版商
Lee: So I went to my publisher.
我说“马丁我认为我们应该出版这本书
”I said, “Martin, I think we ought to publish this book
“别管漫画准则的批准”
without the approval of the comics code.”
斯坦说“管他的漫画准则我不要把它印在书上”
Stan said, “eh. To hell with the comics code. I just won’t put it on the book.”
漫威的革命性之处在于
What was so revolutionary about Marvel was
他们根本没打算要革命
they weren’t trying to be revolutionary.
他们只是顺应时势而已
They were just, “but this is what’s happening.”
我记得一个超赞的封面美国队长和猎鹰
I remember, like, this great cover of Captain America and the Falcon
穿梭在哈林区的熊熊火焰中
running through the streets of Harlem as it burned.
美国队长很愤怒
And Captain America is angry.
我爱这个角色几乎变成了
I love that the character becomes almost, like,
当时美国感受的体现
the spiritual embodiment of what the country feels.
如果国家很愤怒 他就会发火
Like, if the country’s angry, he gets angry.
我们面临古巴导弹危机时
When we had the cuban missile crisis,
我们出版了
we had stories about
要是导弹击中美国会发生何事的故事
“what if missiles were unleashed in the country?”
我们会怎么做
And “what would we do?”
我们与塞尔玛同行
还有种族平等和女权平等
Man: There was racial equality, there was women’s equality,
漫威很擅长创造女性超级英雄
and Marvel was very good about the idea of doing women superheroes,
史蒂夫·英格哈特 《星爵》的作家兼共同创作者
和黑人超级英雄
the idea of doing a black superhero.
我在杰克森高地长大
I grew up in Jackson Heights.
我是古巴后裔
I’m of cuban descent.
我是在美国出生的第一代
I’m first-generation born here in the United States.
我记得拿起一本《神奇四侠》
I remember picking up the Fantastic Four
看到里面有个角色叫《黑豹》
and seeing a character called the Black Panther.
他是第一个黑人超级英雄
He was the first black superhero.
这与肤色和少数族群无关
Liu: It wasn’t necessarily about skin color and being a minority,
而是关于
but it was about, sort of,
接受每个人的不同之处
embracing the differences that everyone has.
比如Ｘ战警对我影响极大
The X-Men, for example, was for me very impactful
因为那是作为少数族群和与他人不同的隐喻
because of the fact that it was a metaphor for sort of being a minority and being different.
漫威在反映世界上现有事物的
Marvel has done such a good job of being able to sort of reflect
多样性方面做得非常好
the diversity of what’s existing in the world.
这让漫威漫画与众不同并且引发了
That really made Marvel Comics different from all the other comics and it made it such a …
摇滚般的好评
almost a rock ‘n’ roll explosion.
我从一开始就知道斯坦·李
I learned about Stan Lee right from the very beginning,
而且不只是斯坦
and not just about Stan,
更包括杰克·“国王”·科比跟“爵士”约翰·罗米塔
but about Jack “King” Kirby and “Jazzy” John Romita.
我七岁时替斯坦·李画了一幅画
Kimmel: I made a drawing for Stan Lee when I was seven years old.
你瞧 超有男子气概的斯坦·李
There he is, manly Stan Lee.
我把这个拿给斯坦看
I showed this to Stan.
我觉得他看了以后感到有点不安
He was, um … I think disturbed is the word.
在很棒的斯坦的肥皂盒子中
Quesada: There was the remarkable Stan’s soapbox,
斯坦会告诉你漫威的进展
where Stan would tell you about the goings-on at Marvel,
你会觉得那是他是专门为你而写的
and you would feel as though he was writing solely to you.
特别的是你身边的孩子
The unique thing about this was that the kid right next to you …
他也在读肥皂盒子 他也有相同感受
he was reading that soapbox, and he was feeling the exact same thing.
30多年来
For over 30 years,
马丁·古德曼不仅提供娱乐
Martin Goodman managed to not only entertain,
他更引导美国人
but also guide Americans
走过人生中最快乐和最黑暗的日子
through some of the happiest and darkest days of their lives.
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