土地与自由（1995）

It’s your village. You have to decide. It’s your decision.
这是你们的村子，你们得做决定，这是你们的决定
Okay, this is what I think,
好吧，这是我所想的
and if anybody disagrees they should just say so right out.
如果任何人不同意，他们应该坦率的讲出来
Si. Okay. You should take this estate, this house, this land
明白，好的，你们应该没收这些财产，房♥子，土地
and divide it up amongst the people in the town right away.
并立即在人们间进行分配
Okay. The decree passed by the Republican Government
好的，共和国政♥府♥十月已经通过法令
in October allows for that.
允许这样做
Okay. It says all property owned by individuals
法令说所有的私有财产
involved in the insurrection will be confiscated.
与这次叛乱有关的都要被没收
Si, si. The problem’s different here…
这的问题不一样…
all the landowners help Franco.
所有的地主都帮助佛朗哥
We must collectivize all the lands. You understand?
我们必须对所有的土地进行集体化，你明白吗？
Todas las tierras, hay que colectivizar no solo dividir.
而不仅仅是一部分土地
I understand that. I understand that.
我明白，我明白
I’m not, I’m not a friend of the landowner. Okay?
我不是地主的朋友，好吗？
I’m not here to defend landowners. Okay?
我来这不是为了保卫地主的，好吗？
But what are you going to do when you have a guy like,
但你们要怎么做，当你们有这样的人就象
what’s his name, Pepe?
他叫什么名字，Pepe？
What are you going to do when you have a guy like Pepe who has…
你们要怎么做，当你们有像Pepe一样的人
he’s a tenant farmer and he has a couple of acres of land…
他有一个雇农，而且有几英亩土地
or a tradesman who doesn’t want to be part of your collective? Okay?
或者是不想加入集体化的商人？是吗？
These people are anti-fascists. What do you do then?
这些人是反法♥西♥斯♥的，你们要怎么做？
It sounds really great on paper, but in reality it won’t work…
说起来好像很好听，但实际上是没有用的
because it’s going to pit the peasants
因为这会使农民们
against the anti-fascists. Okay?
反对我们进行的反法♥西♥斯♥斗争，是吗？
You’re fighting now and it’s going to endanger your food production.
你们现在在争论，而这将危及你们的粮食生产
Lawrence, I think that private ownership of land
Lawrence，我认为土地的私人所有
must be totally given up, forgotten, cancelled…
必须完全放弃，忘记，取消
because it maintains people in a capitalist mentality.
因为它会使人♥民♥笼罩在资本主义的阴影下
I agree. Okay. I agree with, I mean,
我同意，好的 我同意，我是说
I’m not here to argue for, for private property.
我在这不是为了赞成私有财产
I know the definition of private property.
我知道私有财产的定义
I know what it does.
我知道它是什么
Okay, I’m not arguing that.
好吗，我不是来争论
This is not the time for these textbook arguments
现在不是对社♥会♥主♥义♥或土地改革
on socialism or land reform.
教条争论的时候
We have to defeat fascism, that’s the priority.
我们得打败法♥西♥斯♥ 那才是首要的
Are you suspecting this man to, to speak about the textbook of…
你是怀疑讲社♥会♥主♥义♥的那人吗？
socialism?
社♥会♥主♥义♥
No, I’m not!
不，我不是
Well, I’m, I’m agreeing with him. Okay?
我同意他说的，是吧？
I’m agreeing with the collectivisation, all right?
我同意进行集体化，是吧？
But these people cannot collectivise anything
但是这些人不能集体化任何东西
if they’re dead. Okay?
如果他们死了，是吧？
Well, this is, is your opinion.
这是你的观点
My opinion! They asked for my opinion.
我的观点 是他们问我观点的
No, but in my village, the people didn’t wait for the government
不，但在我的村子，人们没有等政♥府♥来
to give them the land.
给他们土地
They took it themselves.
他们自己获得
Nadie espero a que les dijesen que tenian
没人会等到他们告诉你他们有
que hacer con la tierra, la cogieron ellos mismos.
自己的土地
I want you to think beyond this village, okay
我要你们想想这个村子以外的事，好吗
at a much bigger picture.
在一个更大的范围内
Okay. I have no doubt that the Spanish people,
我毫不怀疑西班牙人♥民♥
on their own, could have ‘licked’ Franco.
自己有能力可以打败佛朗哥
But you’re not fighting just Franco,
但你们不是只跟佛朗哥作战
you now have Mussolini and Hitler on your back.
他后面还有墨索里尼和希♥特♥勒♥
Okay. With the exception of Russia and Mexico…
除了俄♥国♥和墨西哥
the rest of the world has turned its back on you. Okay?
整个世界都反对你，是吧？
They refuse to sell the Republic arms.
他们拒绝出♥售♥武器给共和国
Okay. These are capitalists, these are capitalist countries!
那些是资本主义的，那些是资本主义国家
They’re capitalist countries, and if you want their help
他们是资本主义国家，如果你需要他们的帮助
you have to moderate your slogans cos you’re scaring them away!
你就得缓和你的口号♥，因为不这样你就会吓走他们
I’m from Germany.
我从德国来
We wanted revolution and what happened?
我们需要革命，发生的是什么呢？
We’d been the strongest movement in Europe…
我们是欧洲最强大的运动
the best organised workers’ movement.
组织的最好的工人运动
There were six million of us in unions
我们的工会有六百万成员
and what happened?
发生了什么呢？
Hitler…
希♥特♥勒♥
The socialists and the communists told us…
社♥会♥主♥义♥和共♥产♥主义份子告诉我们
to make our revolution later.
以后再革命
But I say make the revolution now.
但我说现在就革命
When people see as the village sees
当人们看到像村民们看到的
that you can be in charge of your life, your land,
你能掌握你的生活，你的土地
when collectivisation becomes a reality,
当集体化成为现实
it’ll be possible for people in Germany, Italy,
对于德国和意大利的人♥民♥
to follow our example.
就能够以我们为榜样
These people think they have, they think they have something,
那些人认为他们拥有一些东西
but they have nothing!
但他们一无所有
But we have to show to the people that, that we have…
但我们得向那些人显示
we’re poor but we’re alive and we’ve got power now,
我们尽管穷，但我们活着而且现在获得了政♥权♥
we don’t have to be seized by fear.
我们用不着恐惧
We’re alive, we’ll die when our time comes, but…
我们活着，当那刻来临我们将会死去，但是…
All French working people are, are looking to us in Spain,
所有法国工人在注视着我们这些在西班牙的人
probably all around the world
也许是全世界的工人
and I think it is not the right time to fight,
我想现在不是
to fight each other
互相争斗而是
but together.
一起战斗的时候
Now all of us know the price of the freedom and we,
现在我们大家都知道自♥由♥的代价
we’ve lost a lot of friends.
我们失去了很多朋友
Gene, your kedas are very seductive but I’ve got one question for you.
Gene，你的观点很诱人，但我有一个问题要问你
Who are you trying to appease…
你试图要满足的是谁？
foreign governments, foreign bankers?
外国政♥府♥，外国银行家？
What is a revolution?
革命是什么？
It’s nothing other than a radical change
它是场激烈的变革
in privilege, wealth and power.
对特权，财富和权力的变革
What’s going to happen, what’… the only way we’ll appease,
将要发生什么，我们要满足的是什么
the only way we’ll appease these people
我们唯一要满足的是这些人♥民♥
when the ideas are diluted and watered down
当思想被冲淡和稀释
till they mean absolutely nothing.
直到它们什么也不是
Now I think you’re dead right when you say
我想你已经死了当你说
when you say that they must look beyond this village,
当你说他们必须把目光从这个村子看远点
and must look at what’s happening outside.
和必须看到外面所发生的
Okay, but not only to foreign bankers and foreign governments.
好吧，但不仅仅是外国银行家和外国政♥府♥
What we must look to as well is that outside these windows,
我们倒不如看看这个窗子外的
as we speak, on this land
正如我们讲的，在这片土地上
are two million landless peasants.
有两百万无地的农民
From the day they were born
从他们出生的那一刻起
they had absolutely no hope other than a life of misery.
除了痛苦的生活他们绝对毫无希望
And unless we harness that energy now
如果我们现在不利用这股力量
the ideas will be dead, there’ll be no change
思想就会死掉，这将没有任何改变
and this will all be in vain.
我们所做的都将是徒劳
Ideas are the basis of this.
思想是建立在这个基础之上的
Jimmy…
Jimmy
Jimmy, those people will be dead never mind the ideas!
Jimmy，这些人将会死去而不管什么思想
If Franco comes in, you know, if Franco wins this war
如果佛朗哥来了，你知道，如果佛朗哥赢得战争
he’ll just kill a million of those people.
他会杀死上百万这些人
They’re nothing to him. They’re just a piece of shit!
他们对他来说什么都不是，他们只不过是堆狗屎
That’s obvious, I agree with that.
那很显而易见，我同意他说的
Exactly. So, unless we win the war,
确切的说，如果我们不能赢得战争
there’s no point in having the ideology.
意识形态就不能取得胜利
The ideology does not exist in, in like, in a book.
意识形态不是存在于书本上
It exists, has to exist in place.
它存在，必须得存在于实际中
It’d have to be real, for real people.
它得是真的，对人♥民♥来说
I say that we have to take risks. What do we do?
我说我们得冒险，我们过的是什么日子？
Misery, hunger, hopelessness.
痛苦，饥饿，绝望
Franco might come back and kill us
佛朗哥可能会回来杀死我们
but I say it’s worth it to continue collectivising
但我说为了继续集体化
and improving the quality of our lives.
和提高我们的生活质量值得这么做