纽伦堡的审判（1961）

我或许真的不该同你谈这个
I probably shouldn’t be here talking with you about this at all
我明白 我真的想明白
I want to understand. I do want to understand
我不得不
I have to
你还要咖啡吗
Would you like some more coffee?
好的 谢谢
Yes, thank you
嗨 -嗨
Hi. -Hi
我们找到艾琳·霍夫曼了
We found Irene Hoffman
哪里 -柏林
Where? -Berlin
柏林
Berlin, eh?
她结婚了 她现在是叫沃尔纳 所以我们找不到她
She got married. Her name is Wallner now. That’s why we couldn’t locate her
她什么时候来 -她不来
When is she coming? -She’s not coming
你说她不来是什么意思 -她不想来
What do you mean, she’s not coming? -She doesn’t want to come
你也知道的 没有人想再作证了
You know what it’s like. None of them want to testify any more
如果午夜赶去 明天下午我能赶回来
If I catch the midnight, I can get to Berlin and be back by tomorrow afternoon
你还没睡过 -如果找到霍夫曼那是值得的
Tad, you haven’t slept… -it will be worth it if I can get Hoffman
明天早上法庭由你负责
Take over for me in court in the morning, will you?
上校 你一来我就告诉过你
Colonel, please. I have told you this before when you first came in
我现在再说一遍 我们已经与此案无关了
I say it again now: we are through with all this
她没必要去 你没权力要她去
She does not have to go. You have no right to order her to
沃尔纳先生 我不是要命令她走 我没有那样的权力
Mr Wallner, I’m not ordering her to go. I have no authority to do that
你不是觉得我们出席审判就能获奖吧
Do you think we get a medal for appearing at these trials?
人♥民♥不喜欢这样 他们不喜欢德国人做出对同胞的不利证明
The people do not like them, they do not want Germans to testify against Germans
这两年我在不知情的情况下 一直没有处理这些案子
I haven’t been prosecuting these cases for the past two years without knowing that
你说走是很容易的
It is easy for you to say go
审判结束后你就回美国了 但我们还是要同人♥民♥继续一起生活
After the trials you go back to America, but we must live with these people
沃尔纳先生 你不觉得我知道我正要问的吗
Mr Wallner, don’t you think I realise what I’m asking?
你怎么可以像盖世太保一样
How can you come in like the Gestapo…
因为他们要为自己的作为付出代价
Because they must not be allowed to get away with what they did!
你认为他们到最后也不会逃脱吗
Do you really think they won’t get away with it in the end?
对天发誓如此
I say the hell with them and the hell with you
好
Hugo
爱米尔·哈恩会在场吗
Emil Hahn will be there?
是的 在法庭
Yes. In the dock
欧内斯特·姜宁
Ernst Janning?
是的
Yes
你看到楼下的店铺了吧
You saw the store downstairs
虽然小本经营 但对我们来说是新的开始
It’s not much, but it’s a new start for us
如果我去纽伦堡他们就会来
They will come if I go to Nuremberg
他们会砸了店铺
They will come and break the windows of the store
我会让守卫24小时守护
I’ll place a guard in front of the store 24 hours a day
你没必要去 艾琳 -艾琳 你务必要去
You do not have to go, Irene… -Irene, you do have to go
你要为那些站不起来的人♥民♥而去
You have to go for all the people who can’t get on the stand themselves
你不亏欠任何人 艾琳 -不 你有
You do not owe it to anybody, Irene. -Yes, you do!
你至少对不起一个人
You owe it to one person at least
在晚上
In the night…
每天晚上
every night…
我们早知道会有这样的结果
we’ve known somehow it would come to this
Dr Geuter 你还记得那标题吗
Dr Geuter, do you recognise that headline?
是的
Yes, sir
你可以当庭宣读吗
Would you read it to the tribunal?
“种族污染 ”
“Death to the race defiler.”
在什么报纸里刊登的呢 -朱利叶斯日报
In what newspaper did it appear? -Julius Streicher’s Der Stürmer
这同什么案子有关
What was it in connection with?
费尔德斯特的案子
The Feldenstein case
什么费尔德斯特案子
What was the Feldenstein case?
法官大人 被告提交介绍费尔德斯特案子的资料
Your Honour! The defence objects to introduction of the Feldenstein case
这是个荒谬的案子 只怕是当时期最荒谬的
It is a notorious case, perhaps the most notorious of the period
既没有相关主题 又掺加感情因素
It has overtones and appeals to emotion that would perhaps be best not raised
与案件无关的资料不需提交
There are no issues or overtones that may not be raised in this courtroom
但本庭对案件相关的内容都感兴趣 反对驳回
The tribunal is interested in everything that is relevant. Objection is overruled
好 接下来我来
It’s all right. I’ll take it
法官大人 可以继续吗 -请继续
May it please the tribunal? -You may continue
谢谢
Thank you
那么 费尔德斯特的案子到底是怎么回事呢
Now, what was the Feldenstein case?
是有关原告因种族污染而指控被告
The case of a man accused of racial pollution
你能否解释一下什么是「种族污染」
Will you explain what is meant by “racial pollution”?
这是根据纽伦堡法律来说的
This is the charge that is referred to in the Nuremberg laws
任何非印欧语系的人同印欧语系人种 发生性关系将有可能被判处死刑
Any non-Aryan having sexual relations with an Aryan may be punished by death
你什么时候知道费尔德斯特的案子呢
When did you first become acquainted with the Feldenstein case?
在1935年9月 警方联♥系♥到我
In September 1935 I was contacted by the police
告诉我费尔德斯特先生被拘禁了
They said that Mr Feldenstein was being held
费尔德斯特先生要求我来做法律顾问
and that he requested that I serve as his counsellor
他当时是什么出身
What position did he hold in the community?
他是非常有名的商人
He was a very well-known merchant
他是纽伦堡犹太教会组织领导之一
He was one of the heads of the Jewish Congregation in Nuremberg
警方以什么罪名起诉他
What was the nature of the charge against him?
他被起诉同16岁的艾琳·霍夫曼有亲密关系
He was accused of having intimate relations with a 16-year-old girl, Irene Hoffman
我明白了
I see
然后他对你说了什么
And what did he say to you about the case?
他说是冤枉的
He said it was false
他说他早就认识小女孩同她的家人
He said he knew the girl and her family a long time
在父母死后他总去看她
He’d gone to visit her since they died
但是他们没有什么亲密关系
But there had never been anything of the kind charged between them
医生 能否请你告诉法庭接下来发生了什么
Doctor, would you please tell the tribunal what happened then?
他在没有经过特别法庭审理就直接被起诉了
He was indicted before the special court at Nuremberg
特别法庭在哪里
Where was this special court?
就在这里 这里的特别庭
It was right here. This building. This very courtroom
盖特博士 当时的审判庭情形如何
Dr Geuter, what were the circumstances surrounding the trial?
是纳粹主义耀武扬威的地方
It was used as a showplace for National Socialism
当时正值纽伦堡9月欢庆
It was the time of the September celebrations, the Nuremberg rallies
法庭里人潮拥挤
The courtroom was crowded
就在后面站满了人
Back there, people were standing up
朱利叶斯就坐在前排的位置
Julius Streicher was sitting in one of the front seats
纳粹党的高员们也都到场了
And high officials of the Nazi party were all over
医生 能否告诉我们
Doctor, would you please tell us
你当时如何预料审判趋势
what were your expectations for the trial in this climate?
我做最坏打算
I expected the worst
当我看到爱米尔·哈恩是公诉人
when I saw that Emil Hahn was the public prosecutor
他是狂热分子
He was a fanatic
他的审判以野蛮残酷著称
His trials were always marked by extreme brutality
但我还是抱着一丝希望
But I had one hope for the outcome
因为坐在审判席的还有欧内斯特·姜宁
because sitting on the judge’s bench was Ernst Janning
他的声誉全国知晓
His reputation was known throughout Germany
他以全身心贡献于法律正义闻名
He was known to have dedicated his life to justice, to the concept of justice
谢谢 问答毕
Thank you. That’s all
还有问题吗
Any questions?
谢谢 没有
Thank you. No questions
请证人离席
The witness is excused
请求传召证人 艾琳·霍夫曼·沃尔纳出庭做证
The prosecution calls to the stand Irene Hoffman Wallner
请举右手
Will you raise your right hand?
我向全能无所不知的主发誓
I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient
我会说出事实的真♥相♥ 绝无虚假
that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing
我会的
I do
可以告诉法庭你的名字吗
Will you please state your name to the tribunal?
艾琳·霍夫曼·沃尔纳
Irene Hoffman Wallner
沃尔纳夫人 你认识雷曼·费尔德斯特么
Mrs Wallner, did you know Lehman Feldenstein?
是的
Yes
你什么时候第一次遇到他
When did you first meet him?
1925或1926年 不是很确切
It was 1925 or 1926. I am not sure exactly
他当时几岁 -50多
How old was he at this time? -He was in his fifties
他被捕时又几岁
And how old was he at the time of his arrest?
65 -我知道了
He was 65. -I see
你们两人是什么关系
What was the nature of your relationship?
我们是朋友
We were friends
你父母死后你还见他吗
Did you continue to see him after your parents died?
是 -为什么
Yes. -Why?
我们是朋友 我住的房♥子也是他的
We were friends. He owned the building that I lived in
他也要常在那一带做生意
His business took him there quite often
当警方讯问他同你的亲密关系时 你是怎么说的
Now, what did you say to the police when they questioned you about having intimate relations with him?
我说那都是胡说
I told them it was a lie