佐杜洛夫斯基的沙丘（2013）

他们应该会觉得松一口气的
they should have been relieved.
但没有 还远远不够
But they weren’t. It wasn’t enough.
洛杉矶
在洛杉矶的时候我并不是很乐观
In Los Angeles, I wasn’t optimistic.
主要是法国人跟美国人有着
The thing is that sometimes the French and the Americans…
不太好处理的关系 你知道的
have difficult relationships, you know.
是啊 我们当时就是这样的
Well, we have had.
我们那时候都接近尾声了 但还需要五百万美金
We were almost at the finish line, but we had to find the last $5 million.
电影花费了一千五百万美金 我们统计是一千五百万
The film cost $15 million. Well, we estimated it as $15…
沃特·迪斯尼电影公♥司♥
We had been invited to Walt Disney studios by the chairman of the board.
他看着我们的成品 说：
He looked through the project and said:
这做得很棒
“This is a wonderful project…”
但这就跟协和式飞机一样
but it is like the Concorde.
一架特战型飞机 但在这儿 从没有出现过
“It’s an exceptional plane, but over here, never!”
那时我就对自己说 将来要面临很多问题
And there I said to myself that we were going to face a lot of problems.
派拉蒙电影公♥司♥
好莱坞更倾向他们有所联♥系♥的想法
Hollywood prefers ideas which they can relate to…
就像一些当代的电影一样
things which sound like two other current movies.
像《侏罗纪公园》
If you can tell them it’s like Jurassic Park…
《暮光之城》
crossed with Twilight or, you know…
还有很多杀戮场景的霍比特人 这更说得通
The Hobbit crossed with The Killing Fields, it makes more sense.
带着很多复杂的东西
To come in with something which is more complex…
尤其是一些有精神文明和超自然的电影
and especially a film which has spiritual and metaphysical ideas…
很多工作室都会制♥作♥带恐惧的电影
is something which has most studios running scared.
华纳兄弟电影公♥司♥
他们总是以非常友好的方式接受
They always received us in a very friendly way…
但一直都是一样的回答
but it was always the same answer.
当我们给他们书的时候 他们印象很深刻
When we would give them the book, they were very impressed.
他们从没见过这样的东西
They had never seen anything like it.
每次他们都会告诉我们这是很棒的 这是非常有建设性的
“Each time, they would tell us, ” it’s superb. It’s very well constructed.
你会去解决这些有特殊影响的技术问题
You’ve solved the technical problems of those special effects.
这在经济上是合理的
It’s economically reasonable.
但我们不接受你的导演
“But we don’t get your director.”
他们没有资格来评判这些东西
They are not qualified to judge this material.
他们自己也不是设计师或者艺术家
They are not designers or artists themselves.
他们就是会计 他们只想知道 账数底线罢了
Most of those guys are accountants. They want to know the bottom line.
好莱坞从没有把科学小说 像这样形象化过
Hollywood did not visualize science fiction that way.
2001年的太空漫游
It was in 2001: A Space Odyssey…
或者在一些小成本电影里
or in small B movies.
但是大制♥作♥的电影会在 所有地方花费成百万
But a huge movie, that would cost millions of dollars with all the effects.
他们那时没这么想过
They did not conceive of that.
或许那有些长
Maybe it was a bit long as well.
或许电影有一点过长了
Maybe the film was a bit too long.
他们要我做一部一个半小时的电影 可以再剧院放映的
They asked me to make a picture one hour and a half, for the theaters.
而我自己说 我不想受时间限制 我会制♥作♥一部
And myself, “No, why the time?” I will make a picture…
12小时 或者20小时的电影
of 12 hours! Or 2O hours!
我们那时担心电影会超出预算
The worry was that it would go way over budget…
《星球大战》制♥作♥人：加里·库尔兹
而且不会有观众
and it wouldn’t have an audience…
因为没人会坐着看完一部长电影
because no one would want to sit through that long a film.
所以这些东西要能说得过去
So those things should have been at least talked through…
我觉得 在完成一个展示前
I think, before a presentation was made…
一些人应该知晓
because someone should have known…
电影制♥作♥人员会
that the studio people would be…
会一直遭受一些艰难的奋斗
There would be a red flag all the time…
关于它的匪夷所思
about how bizarre it was.
尤杜洛斯基的粗暴一面
The totally outrageous side of Jodorowsky…
尤其是在《圣山》和《鼹鼠》之后
especially after The Holy Mountain and El Topo…
他们也不信他们做出这么有野心的电影
did not give them faith that he could lead this very ambitious project.
因为一千五百万美元 在70年代中期是很大一笔钱了
Because $15 million in the middle of the ’70s was a lot of money.
这就是他们的答案 即使他们知道很多东西还可以更完美
And that was their answer, even though they found everything else to be perfect.
那时什么都很完美 除了导演
Everything was great, except the director.
你必须要像个诗人一样
You have to be like a poet.
你的电影要如你所想一样
Your movie must be just as you think of it and just as you want it.
不要去评论这些改变 人或事都不行
Do not take comments to change this or that from this person or the other. No!
电影必须是像我梦想中的一样
The movie has to be just like I dream it.
电影必须完完全全像我梦中的一样
The picture need to be exactly as I am dreaming the picture.
这是个梦 不要改变我的梦
Is a dream. Don’t change my dream.
我深信
I believe deep down…
人们不会在美国做这部电影
that people did not do this film in America…
因为他们害怕他
because they were afraid of him.
《亡命驾驶》导演：尼古拉斯·温丁·雷弗恩
They were afraid of his imagination, his mind…
他们怕不知道他会怎么做
they were afraid what it was gonna do to them.
我觉得这是它最终 没有实现的主要原因
I think that is the real reason why it never got made…
因为人们当时很害怕
because people were scared.
这个系统让我们像奴隶一样
This system make of us slaves.
没有尊严 没有深度
Without dignity. Without depth.
就像一个恶魔在我们口袋里
With a devil in our pocket.
这难以置信的钱在口袋里
This incredible money are in the pocket.
金钱真乃粪土啊
This money. This shit.
这些纸张毫无意义
This nothing. This paper who have nothing inside.
电影是由心脏的
Movies have heart.
有想法的
Have mind.
是有力量的
Have power.
有野心的
Have ambition.
我想要这么做 为什么不可以？
I wanted to do something like that. Why not?
丹·奥班农的录音 当时所有的计划都取消了
It was canceled at the point where all of the planning…
再纸面上是完成了
that could be done on paper had been done…
我们当时都准备好开始建设了
and we were ready to start constructing sets.
他们当时都有去阿尔及利亚 拍摄的空隙了
They were taking a hiatus before they went to Algeria to shoot.
他被送回来做一些电影股票的研究
And he was sent back here to do some research on film stock…
丹·奥班农的遗蠕：黛安·奥班农
然后他接到电♥话♥说 结束了
and then he got the call, said it’s over.
没有资金
No money.
然后他疯了 当时都在巴黎
And he went crazy. Everything was in Paris.
他所有东西都在巴黎 他卖♥♥了他的车
Everything he owned was in Paris. He’d sold his car.
他就这样窝在我们沙发上
So he was crashed on our couch, and he stayed there…
两个星期 知道大家都抓狂了
for about two weeks until he drove everybody nuts.
这没有拍真的是一场灾难
Complete disaster that was never made, complete disaster.
它本可以很特别的
It would have been quite extraordinary.
我当时很失望 当然很失望
I was disappointed. Sure I was disappointed, you know.
因为如果那部电影拍成了 就像二
Because if the film was made… There was like…
就像你有
You know, it’s like you have a…
一个梦想般的生活
A dreamed life.
我的生活本可以像这样的
My life could have been this and that. Right?
很失望 因为我们当时都很相信它
Very disappointed. Very disappointed because we all believed in it.
我对它有信仰
I believed in it.
亚历山德罗当时很
Alejandro was very, I think… I think…
很失望
very, very, very hurt, very disappointed.
对他来说是个很大的败笔
It’s a big failure for him.
现在 我也有这样的感受
Now, this is my take on it…
但我想他没有感觉到像
but I think he didn’t feel like…
他还可以做一些别的 在这样一个项目之后
doing something else after such a project…
那是他一生所爱 我相信 这也是我的感受
which was the project of his life, I believe. That’s my feeling.
我觉得这是人性
I think that the humiliation…
佐杜洛夫斯基当时备受痛苦 因为没有被选中
that Alejandro Jodorowsky suffered, in not having been chosen…
因为太原始 太超现实主义而被消除
in having been eliminated for being too original, being too surrealistic…
这是永久性损伤
that is a permanent injury.
我想佐杜洛夫斯基把这当做他的生命
I think that Jodorowsky carries that in his heart for life.
我当时被说服认为这会很棒
I was convinced that it would be something great.
但迪诺·德·劳伦提斯的女儿
But then Dino De Laurentiis’ daughter…
自己过来把它从我们身边夺去
came along and took the project away from us…
把它给我大卫·林奇
and gave it to David Lynch.
您期待已久的大♥片♥
《沙丘》
自言自语
当我听到大卫·林奇会执导它
And when I heard that David Lynch will direct that…
我很痛苦 我尊敬大卫·林奇 他可以做到的
I have a pain because I admire David Lynch. He can do it!
他是当下唯一能做得到的 他也会去做的
He is the only one in this moment who can do it that and he will do it!
我很痛苦 因为这是我的梦 但却是另一个人去完成
I suffer because was my dream. Another person will do that…
或许会比我还好
maybe better than me.
然后他们会在这放出这部电影
And then when the picture, they will show the picture here…
我说我不会去看的 因为我会死掉
I say I will not go to see that because I will die.
我儿子说：不 我们是战士 你要去看
And my sons say, “No, we are warriors. You need to come and to see that.”