简·方达的五幕戏（2018）

and then going about my life.
我只是全心全意的、踏实的行动主义者
It was full-time, on-the-ground activism.
我一直在奔波的路上
I was on the road all the time.
我被人们定义为具有多重面貌
I was identified with different movements,
我的生活非常复杂
and my life was very complicated
非常 非常忙碌 神经紧绷
and very, very busy, and intense.
我确实变得让人厌烦
I do have a tendency to kind of go full bore,
绝对是这样 不管是做的好与坏
200 percent, for better or worse.
这感觉就像是对凡妮莎的背叛
It felt like a betrayal to Vanessa.
一天晚上 我把她放在地板上的毛巾上换尿布
One night, I laid her on a towel on the floor to change her diapers,
她深深望向我的眼睛
and she looked very deep into my eyes,
我可以看出她在说 “你在哪里？”
and I could tell that she was saying, “Where are you?
“你在哪里？”
“Where are you?
“你为什么在我身边呢？”
“Why don’t you show up?”
这就是我的感受
That’s what I felt.
我不得不把目光移开
And I had to look away.
这很可怕 不是吗？
Isn’t that awful?
我有点超过负荷了
I was kinda in over my head.
我迫切需要重新塑造我自己
I desperately needed structure,
我迫切需要指导
I desperately needed guidance,
还有 呃
and, uh,
我总是求助于男人
I had always turned to men for that.
我们必须团结一致 我们必将战无不胜
We must be unified, must be invincible,
必须坚强 必须团结
must be strong, must find solidarity,
第三幕
必须争取 必须有计划
must struggle, must have a program,
而且 那些试图强加法♥西♥斯♥主义已经被粉碎
and must be the rock on which this attempt to impose fascism is shattered.
我在市中心的某个剧院
I was downtown at some theater,
这个人出现了 汤姆·黑登
and this guy shows up… Tom Hayden.
我们开始接触
We connected a little bit,
我可以感觉到
and, uh, I could tell
我们之间的关系正在改变
that something was going on between us.
他是一个游♥行♥运动的英雄
He was a movement hero.
我被吓坏了
I was extremely intimidated.
我想 “哦 他是这么的古灵精怪 ”
I thought, “Oh, there’s just something so impish.”
他的眼睛里闪烁着光芒
He had a twinkle in his eye.
他把手放在我的膝盖上
He put his hand on my knee,
我感到电流穿过我的四肢百骸
and I felt this electric shock go through my body,
我回到家 我当时有个室友 “鲁比” 我对她说
and I came home, and I said… I had a roommate at the time, Ruby, and I said to her,
“我想我已经遇到了我下一个要嫁的男人了 ”
“I think that I’ve met the man that I’m gonna marry next.”
他是新左派的成员
He had been part of the formation of the New Left.
他曾是芝加哥的七人之一
He had been one of the Chicago 7.
他是SDS的联合创始人
He was cofounder of SDS.
当汤姆出现时 我那时已经是一个积极分子了
I was already an activist when Tom came along.
但是他是过来人 他知道
But he had such experience, he knew
如何帮助我在这条路走下去
how to help me go down that path,
更好、更灵活、更深入地走下去
better and smarter and deeper.
我参与和平运动已经有很长一段时间了
I had been in the peace movement for a long time.
但是第一次SDS全国游♥行♥
But the first SDS national demonstration,
美国历史上最大的
the largest in American history,
是在1965年
was in 1965.
有25,000人参与其中 在短短几年内就会增长20倍
It was 25,000 people, that would grow by 20-fold in just a few years,
简参与了这一切
and Jane was involved in all of that.
她在帮助我们的 在士兵咖啡屋中发挥了长处
She had a role in helping with the, uh, GI coffee houses
与士兵们分享信息 说出他们的抉择
to share information with the soldiers about their options.
“越南到底在哪里？到底发生了什么事？”
“Where exactly is Vietnam? What exactly could happen to me?”
那种事情是实打实的
That sort of thing was very real.
她说她没有想过
She suggested that she hadn’t been thinking,
她的建议是让他们深思熟虑
and that her recommendation was to think.
他们确实这样做了
And they did.
它传播到校园
It spread to campuses,
最终 成千上万的年轻人拒绝了战争
where, eventually, many thousands of young men resisted.
我被她的转变所吸引
I was drawn by her transformation
从好莱坞明星到政♥治♥明星
from a Hollywood star to a political star.
通常情况下 电影明星也不会参与到任何事情中来
It’s not often that a movie star also gets involved in anything
这可能会激怒人们 而我的下一位嘉宾肯定也会是这样
that might irritate people, and my next guest has certainly taken that chance
但她却尽力去做了她想做的事
and done it to the hilt.
她 我像你肯定知道 最近刚从越南北部回来
She, as I’m sure you know, recently returned from a trip to North Vietnam.
请欢迎 简·方达
Will you welcome, please, Jane Fonda.
这一次你真的被曝光在了镜头之下
You really got pasted this time by the press and others
当你回国的时候 你显然会猜到那些铺天盖地的新闻
when you came back, as you obviously know.
你会不会选择不同的做法
Would you have done anything differently
如果你能重新来过？
if you had it to do over again?
那是一种离奇的生活
It’s a surreal thing to live through…
那两周我在北越南的所经历的
what I experienced in the two weeks that I was in North Vietnam.
从南朋飞到河内
Flying from Nam Pen to Hanoi,
我望向窗外 我能看见
I look out the window, and I can see
美国飞机轰炸
American planes bombing.
尼克松将地面部队撤回国内
Nixon was bringing ground troops home,
他宣称要结束战争
and he was saying that he was ending the war,
事实上 根本没有结束
when, in fact, it wasn’t ending.
反而加剧了对北越的轰炸
It was escalating in terms of bombing of North Vietnam.
嗯 你知道 我们对北境的攻击 发电厂即将投产
还有 我仍然认为我们现在应该把堤坝开闸
-会淹死人吗？ -会淹死大约20万人
我们开始得到公报：事态很严重
We began to get communiqués saying, this is really serious.
看起来美国轰炸机的目标是
It looks like American planes are targeting
在季风季节之前 摧毁北越的堤防
the dikes of North Vietnam right before the monsoon season.
如果堤坝被削弱 一切都会给美国的军队让路
If the dikes are weakened and give way,
一百万人可能溺水而亡或饿死
a million people could drown or die from starvation.
首先 我最感兴趣的是 如何才能到达北越
I’m always interested, first, in the mechanics of how somebody gets to North Vietnam.
很多人会说 “你为什么要去那
A lot of people say, well, you know, “How come you got to go,
你觉得你有权利谈论这场战争吗？”
and how do you feel that you have a right to speak about the war?”
没人比我更我不敢有权谈论这场战争了 你知道吗？
And I have no more right than anyone else, you know?
两年前 我甚至不知道越南在哪里
Two years ago, I didn’t even know where Vietnam was.
为什么她会想要孤身前往那儿
Why on earth would she conceive of the idea of going alone…
去河内？
to Hanoi?
她难道也会去柏林吗
Would she have gone to Berlin
在德奥合并时期？
during the middle of the Anschluss?
她可能 就像一些人的 她在寻找真正的自我
She was, maybe, as some would say, searching for something in herself,
考验她自己：“我有多勇敢？”
testing herself. “How brave am I?
难道我只是屏幕上的一个花瓶吗？”
Am I not just a flibbertigibbet on the screen?”
我们可能需要精神病学方面的知识来帮助我们得出答案
We might need psychiatry to help us with the answer to this.
我不确定
I’m not sure.
要么是勇敢 要么是愚蠢 我认为这两者都有
It’s either brave or foolish, and I think it partook of both.
你有没有试图让士兵们
Were you trying to get the soldiers
违背他们的命令吗？
to disobey their orders?
不 我
No, I-I…
我知道不能要求士兵违抗命令
I knew that you cannot ask a soldier to disobey orders.
你并不是那个付出代价的当事人
You’re not the one that pays the consequences.
你看 你说过 以下是直接引用
Well, you said, this is direct quotes,
“我请求你考虑一下你在做什么 ”
“I beg you to consider what you are doing.
医院里到处都是婴儿、妇女和老人
“The hospitals are filled with babies and women and old people.
你能证明你做的事情是正确的吗？”
Can you justify what you are doing?”
这不就听起来像是你在要求他们停止他们正在做的事情？
Doesn’t that sound like you’re asking them to stop what they’re doing?
我是请求他们认真考虑一下
I’m asking them to consider it.
然后 在你的行程中 你被拍到
And then, in your trip, you were photographed
在北越人的航♥空♥炮后面
behind an aerial gun of the, uh, North Vietnamese,
如果不是越共的话 我也不确定 你似乎看起来有点失态
if not the Vietcong, I’m not sure. That seemed a bit tactless.
你在敌人的枪后面做什么？
What were you doing behind an enemy gun?
我当时并没有想太多 呃 那样做会造成什么样的看法
I didn’t think, at the time, about how it would be, uh, received.
我能理解为什么人们会对此感到困惑
And I can understand why people were very confused by that.
士兵们在那里接待了我 并给我唱了一首歌♥
The soldiers received me there and sang me a song.
这让我很感动因为他们表达了
It was very moving to me because they were expressing the same sentiments
与美国大兵所倾诉的相同的态度
that American GIs expressed to me.
我为他们的歌♥鼓掌
And I was applauding their song
这就是美国电视上播出的画面
and this was what was shown on American television.
是的 是的
Yeah, yeah.
好吧 我想知道你是怎么做到的
Well, I wondered how you got there.
我太天真了 我犯了错误 但是
I’m… I’m naive and I make mistakes, but…
我坐在那里是我的错
it was my fault that I sat there.
简方达的形象是
The image of Jane Fonda,
芭芭丽娜