寻找黑暗（2019）

The only thing that you would have to contend with was the ratings board.
这总是一场斗争 因为导演们觉得他们有创作自♥由♥来讲述故事
It was always a fight because the directors felt they had creative freedom to tell the
并做他们想做的任何事情
story and do whatever they wanted to do.
当然了 也有些人认为某些主题和我们所做的一些事情
And of course, there were people that found some of the subject matter and some of what
会惹观众反感
we did offensive.
如果血腥场景太多 你会拿到X级 而X就意味着发行商
For a certain amount of blood, you get an X and an X means the distributor can’t release
马克·肖斯特罗姆
《活跳尸2》特效化妆设计、造型师
无法在所有的影院上映
in almost all the theaters that wants you.
你只能小范围上映 同时你的利润也不会太高
You’ve got a very small release which means it’s a very small profit.
所以 你必须得注意这一点
So, you have to be mindful of that.
我参与的电影里 有几部就是由于暴♥力♥和血腥获得了X级
I’ve helped several films get X ratings because of the violence and the blood.
《鬼追人2》（1988）
通常他们会重新提交 在这里剪掉几帧 那里剪掉几帧
Often they’ll resubmit it, they’ll cut out a few frames here and a few there.
最后有可能拿个R级
Finally, you might get an R – rating.
由于害怕获得X级 所以他们会选择从一开始就不采用红色的血
It was often that this fear of getting an X – rating so they would go with blood that
比如《鬼追人》和《鬼玩人2》
wasn’t red right from the beginning like in Phantasm or Evil Dead 2.
特别是在80年代的电影中 人们非常关注血腥的镜头 老实说
There’s such a focus on blood and gore particularly in movies in the ’80s and to be honest with you
我从没有完全理解过这一点
I never quite got it.
《闪灵》（1980）
一旦电影制♥作♥者开始涉足于血腥的场景 场面就会越来越大
Once filmmakers got into that whole blood thing and the bloodletting and it became bigger
《鬼玩人2》（1987）
就好像每个人都在攀比似的
and bigger and like who can outdo the other person?
这确实很有趣 但对我来说 它并不像现实生活那样真实
And yeah, that’s fun but to me it wasn’t quite as realistic as what happens in real life.
制♥作♥道具的效果师通常最了解如何拍摄
The effects artists creating stuff usually knows best how to shoot it.
有些东西该从某个角度拍摄 有些最好不要从这个角度拍摄
Some things are going to be shot from a certain angle, they work best not from this angle.
一个好的导演会相信他们的特效师 如果你从不同的地方进行拍摄
And a good director is going to trust their effects people but if you shoot it from something
它就会穿帮 就会暴露出它背后的玄机
a little bit different it’s going to reveal itself to be the magic trick and you don’t
就像魔术师 不会想展示出帽子里的兔子的
want to ever show the rabbit in the hat.
《阴阳魔界》（1983）
那时工作量很大 每个人都忙得不可开交 从不会觉得有竞争
There was so much work that everybody was keeping busy and it never felt like competition.
《南瓜恶灵》斯坦·温斯顿特效道具组花絮（2012）
感觉更像是一种共存
It felt more like a coexistence.
我们都有相同的背景 都是阅读电影界的著名怪物长大的
We all had the same backgrounds, we all grew up reading Famous Monsters of Filmland,
也都是用超8毫米摄像机制♥作♥电影的
we all grew up making movies with our Super 8 cameras.
有一种共同的传统让我们走到了那个时代
There was a sort of a shared heritage in what got us to where we were at that point.
80年代初 Fangoria杂♥志♥问世 现在我们有一群人
In the early ’80s, Fangoria magazine came out and now we had a group of people that were
庆祝那些电影的实际特效化妆
celebrating the actual special effects makeup of those movies.
当时就是 你这个家伙还会做特效 哦 那挺酷的
Before it was like yeah, you’re a guy, you do special effects, that’s cool.
斯宾塞·希克曼
死亡华尔兹奖创始人
但后来 Fangoria真的让周围的人觉得他们看起来很酷
But then Fangoria really made this like cool personality around them because they really
因为他们真的专注于他们正在做的工作 而这些工作是如此地创新
focused on the work they were doing because it was so innovative and so different and
与众不同又形象化
also so graphic.
他们绘制出了其他人无法绘制的图画
They printed the pictures that no one else would print.
乔·丹特
《破胆三次》导演
孩子们想要的不是尖牙 而是血块
It wasn’t the fangs that the kids wanted it was the gore.
他们会绘制血淋淋的尸体和人的喉咙被割开的照片
And they had pictures of bloody corpses and people with slashed throats and tongues coming
还伸着舌头
hanging out and stuff.
我不会称其为色情片 但它在某种程度上具有相同的效果
I wouldn’t exactly call it porn but it had the same effect in a way because it was a
它比孩子的接受能力要高 就像那种违法的禁片
high for kids because it would seem so forbidden and it was so transgressive.
Fangoria是关于即将上映的影片以及影片推介的权威
Fangoria was the authority on what’s about to come out and what do you need to see.
小菲尔·诺贝尔
《Fangoria》主编
当时没有互联网 没有触手可及的无穷无尽的图像资源 你只能看杂♥志♥
Without an internet, without an endless resource of images at your fingertips you would stare
直把它翻到破烂不堪
at that fucking Fangoria until the pages fell apart.
Fangoria在早期的时候遇到了很多麻烦 因为图像太震撼或血腥等原因
Fangoria had a lot of trouble in the early days getting taken off of news stands and things
它常常被从报摊上撤下
like that because the imagery was too shocking or bloody or whatever.
Fangoria Cinefantastique Cinefex
Fangoria, Cinefantastique, Cinefex
还有American Cinematographer
and American Cinematographer.
这些都是我们每个月的小小圣经
Yeah, those were my little Bibles every month.
这是个很好的途径 可以了解其它的效果是怎么完成的 同时有哪些电影
It was a wonderful way to see how other effects were being done, what films are being
正在制♥作♥
done.
它是个很技术性的工具
A great teaching tool.
负责特效和特效化妆的人都在看那些杂♥志♥
Everybody in special effects and special makeup effects was reading all those magazines.
而且它也引发了人很大的兴趣 因为总会有人看那些电影
It actually generated more interest because somebody would watch that movie, or they’d see
然后就会了解到一些幕后的消息
some behind the scenes story and they say, ”Wait, what?
什么 这是你用牦牛毛做的
You did what with yak hair?”
他们会去看电影 然后突然意识到 哇 这太酷了
And they’d go see the movie and they’d suddenly realize, “Wow, that’s cool.
我明白这些效果是怎么做到的了 现在我相信它是真的
I understand how it all comes together and look and I’m seeing it now and I’m believing it
我正在买♥♥票看这些怪物
and it’s a monster and I’m buying it…
《活魔人》（1986）
我觉得80年代电影中的许多特效经受了时代的考验
I think a lot of the special effects in the ’80s movies have aged well.
你在现场拍摄 透过镜头你能看到它实际的效果
You’re doing it live really, essentially in front of the camera, ya know they’re practical effects.
《怪形》（1982）
我认为CG的一些东西让它看起来很遥远 不真实 它并没有
There’s something about CG that I think makes it seem distant and not really, it’s not really
《怪形前传》（2011）
真正地发生在你面前
happening in front of you.
演员更希望和他们能够看到并做出反应的东西对戏
Actors would prefer to work with something they can see and react to rather than a green
而不是棍子上的绿球
ball on a stick.
我很难挑选出80年代最棒的视觉特效来 但我认为
I would be hard-pressed to pick the all-time great ’80s practical effect but chances are
里克·贝克做得很棒
Rick Baker did it.
《豹人》（1982） – 预告片
《豹人》是80年代恐怖片中一个不寻常的时刻 因为它是对合法性的挑战
Cat People is an unusual moment in ’80s horror because it’s this attempt at legitimacy.
小菲尔·诺贝尔
Fangoria主编
你召集了所有玩恐怖片的人 还拉来了保罗·施拉德
You’ve got all the horror guys doing their stuff but then you’ve got Paul Schrader who had
他写过《出租车司机》《美国舞男》和《三岛由纪夫》
written Taxi Driver and American Gigolo and Mishima.
他或多或少是一位受人尊敬的电影制♥作♥人 而在这里 他跟上了
And he’s more or less a respectable filmmaker and here he is getting in on the shapeshifter
由《美国狼人在伦敦》掀起的变身潮流
trend that was started by An American Werewolf in London.
所以 这对我来说很有趣
So, that’s very interesting to me.
《豹人》（1982）
他与娜塔莎·金斯基和马尔科姆·麦克道威尔合作
He cast it with Nastassja Kinski and Malcolm McDowell.
就像提升了游戏的难度
It’s like raising the game a little bit.
那部电影给美国恐怖片带来了一些欧洲的感觉 我觉得它
That movie brought a sort of euro sensibility into American horror that I found really,
唐·曼西尼
《鬼娃回魂》导演、编剧
真的非常有趣
really interesting.
《豹人》在原版的基础上进行了最简单的提升 并更多地描述了
Cat People takes the sort of barest lift from the original’s premise and makes it more about
有着边缘乱♥伦♥关系的兄弟姐妹
these siblings who have this sort of borderline incestuous relationship.
这种变身实际上就像是在看一件艺术品
The transformation is actually almost like watching a work of art.
它们的目的非常不同
It’s very different in its purpose.
他们已经看到了《破胆三次》和《美国狼人》中发生的事情 因此他们
They’d seen what had happened in The Howling and in An American Werewolf and so they’re
将这个故事带到了另一个境界
taking it into this other space.
而我喜欢《豹人》的变身是因为它们都有点不同
And what I like about the Cat People transformations is that they’re both kind of different.
马尔科姆·麦克道威尔想做猫 但不同的是 娜塔莎·金斯基的变身
Malcolm McDowell likes being the cat and so it’s kind of a different thing but in Nastassja
很痛苦 她不想变成这个样子
Kinski’s transformation is painful and she’s not into this.
汤姆·伯曼和其他工作人员考虑到了这一点 将角色的感受融入了变身中
Tom Berman and his crew thought about that and sort of worked the characters feelings
使其成为一件非常痛苦和不舒服的事情
into the transformation and made it a very painful and uncomfortable thing.
与一年前贝克的道具和博廷的变身相比
And it was just an interesting pivot from where we had been just a year before
这是个有趣的转折
with Baker’s stuff and Bottin’s transformations.
《篮子里的恶魔》（1982） – 预告片
《篮子里的恶魔》是一部令人惊叹的超低预算电影
Basket Case is an amazing super low budget movie.
斯宾塞·希克曼
死亡华尔兹奖创始人
《篮子里的恶魔》（1982）
我也爱那个时期的纽约 那是最后一部拍摄
I Love New York at that period as well and that’s one of the last movies that captured
时代广场的电影
Time Square as it was.
除非你正在寻找毒品 否则你不会去那个肮脏的地方
That really grimy place that you would not go to unless you’re looking for drugs.
有很多奇怪的 肮脏的纽约场景 你在屏幕上再也看不到了
There’s a lot of weird, seedy New York stuff that you don’t get to see any more on screen.
小菲尔·诺贝尔
Fangoria主编
当彼列在酒店房♥间里大发脾气时 我们突然停止了动作 我们正在砸电视
When Belial throws his tantrum in the hotel room and suddenly we’re in stop motion and
而就在那时 我们好像都去到了
we’re smashing TVs and stuff. That’s when like we kind of all went…
那时你才知道你身处于一个不安全的空间
That’s when you learned that you’re in this unsafe space.
就像 哦 这家伙没有按照任何人的规则玩 他需要为这个场景
They’re like oh, this guy is not playing by anybody’s rules and he needed stop motion
停止动作 他会这样做
for this scene and he’s going to do it.
这就是《篮子里的恶魔》征服我的地方
That’s where Basket Case crosses over into greatness for me.
《篮子里的恶魔》导演弗兰克·亨南洛特对我说 我是个奇怪的小人
Frank Henenlotter, the director of Basket Case once said to me, “I’m a strange little man.”
乔·鲍勃·布里格斯
《乔·鲍勃·布里格斯的最后时刻》主持人
他确实是
And he is.
他会把一些大多数人都敬而远之的东西放在电影里
There are things that he would put in a movie that most people would recoil from.
像《篮子里的恶魔》中有一些场景就特别地色情 暴♥力♥和粗俗
And in fact, there are scenes in Basket Case that are so sexual and violent and gross that
以至于很多工作人员都离开了片场
the crew of the film actually walked off and left the film.
在《篮子里的恶魔》的结尾有一个镜头 怪物彼列跑到了女主角的上面
There’s one shot at the end of Basket Case where Belial the monster is actually on top
女主角完全赤♥裸♥ 画面是你不敢想象的 一个骨瘦如柴的小怪物
of the female lead. She’s completely naked and he’s obviously doing something that you
竟然会对一个漂亮女人做那样的事
don’t want to think about a little scrawny monster doing to a beautiful woman.
但我觉得电影里必须得有这个镜头
But I think the shot has to be in the movie.
到时候你必须要看到这一幕
By that time, you have to see that.
感谢上帝 当亨南洛特需要制♥作♥这些电影时
Thank God that Henenlotter got to make those movies when he got to make them, where he got
他必须得拍摄 因为这是那个磨坊的最后一口气
to make them, because they were maybe the last gasp of that grindhouse thing.
《吵闹鬼》（1982） – 预告片
有一种恐怖电影是指大制片厂制♥作♥ 大制片厂预算
There’s a certain kind of horror film that says big studio production, big studio budget.
乔·鲍勃·布里格斯
《乔·鲍勃·布里格斯的最后时刻》主持人