传奇字体 Helvetica（2007）

这个也不带一点“外遇 (extramarital)”的意思
There’s nothing “extramaritaI” about that.
这个就更没有“阳光 (sunshine)”了
There’s no “sunshine” here.
这可多没意思 不是个有趣的“沙地（sandlot）”
That’s no fun, that’s not a fun sandlot.
“爆♥炸♥（explosion）”在哪里？
Where’s the explosion?
这也可能是第一次约会（“第三次约会”）
This could be the first date.
这个倒还凑合 这些灰狗巴士是挺无聊的
This might be close, these buses are kind of boring.
“简洁有力”和“空洞乏味”之间的界限其实很模糊
There’s a very thin line between simple and clean and powerful, and simple and clean and boring.
这就是所谓垃圾风格字体设计的兴起
That was sort of the rise of what’s referred to as grunge typography,
并成为了二、三、四、五年内吞噬一切的“美学”
and that became an all-consuming aesthetic for two, three, four, five years
这种趋势从其发端的大♥师♥们开始
as that trend worked its way down from the masters who originated it
一直延伸到那些时常犯错的家伙
to anyone who sort of already had a tendency to make mistakes
他们忽然之间发现自己可以胜任了
and all of sudden found that they looked good now instead of incompetent,
不再像以前那样白♥痴♥无能
which is how they looked the day before.
垃圾时代末期的字体排印设计残破不堪
Typography was so broken by the end of the grunge period,
就像置身于一堆混乱之中
you know, just lying there in a twisted heap,
所有的规则都被抛弃了 前方看不到出路
all rules cast aside, no apparent way forward,
所以这些设计师们在九十年代末能做的就是回归
that all those designers could perhaps do by the late nineties was to go back
回归到早期的设计方式
to return to an earlier way of designing,
但需要用一套新的理论来支持它
but with a new set of theories to support it.
欧文·布林克斯
玛丽·斯托克
对我们而言 现代主义确实有着更颠覆的一面
For us, modernism does have a more subversive side.
丹尼·范登邓根
我认为整个“现代主义”
I think that the whole image of modernism
基本上就是“功能主义”
as something that is primarily concerned with functionalism,
加“实用主义”后者是很晚才出现的
utilitarianism, that is something that emerged much later,
属于某种后期现代主义
that is a sort of a late-modernist thing.
我觉得早期的现代主义运动
I think the early-modernist movements,
像达达主义、未来主义、超现实主义
Like Dadaism, Futurism, Surrealism,
都有着它们颠覆的一面
all had their more subversive sides
以及… 该怎么说呢
and their more, how do you call it, the more…
… 更辨证的一面 所以它们都有其针对的目标
dialectical sides, so they went against something.
我们并不反对那样的实验
It’s not that we are against that experimentation
像大卫·卡尔森和 Emigre 和 Fuse 和内维尔·布罗迪所做的
that people like David Carson and Emigre and Fuse, that Neville Brody did.
我觉得我们所做的其实是对他们的实验的一种延伸
We think what we do is a sort of an extension of that.
每一次都要搜寻新的字体让我们疲惫不堪
All that hunting to the next typeface every time, it took a lot of energy,
我还记得学生时代 我们常常会很失望
and I can still remember as students that we were really disappointed
因为你想用的某个字体被别人用了
because you wanted to use a certain typeface and then you saw somebody else had used it,
所以你就不能用它了 因为你想显得有原创性
and then you couldn’t use it because you wanted to be original.
用 Helvetica 就根本不存在这个问题 因为人人都在用它
And with Helvetica this whole problem is non-existent because everybody’s using Helvetica.
很多人觉得 新一代设计师们对 Helvetica 这类字体的使用方式
A lot of people see the way a young generation of designers uses a typeface such as Helvetica
相当的肤浅 只是在照搬某种风格
as a more superficial way, as a sort of appropriation of a style.
我想我们完全不能同意
I think we would very much disagree with that.
我们三个都是七十年代出生的
I think all three of us grew up in the ’70s
当时的荷兰还在后期现代主义的“最后统治”之下
in the Netherlands which was dominated by the last moment of late Modernism.
比如我出生和成长的城市鹿特丹
For example, the city I was born in and grew up in, Rotterdam,
标志字体是维姆·克劳威尔设计的
the logotype was designed by Wim Crouwel,
邮票是克劳威尔设计的
the stamps were designed by Crouwel,
电♥话♥簿也是克劳威尔设计的
the telephone book was designed by Crouwel,
我们学校里用的地图册还是克劳威尔设计的
the atlas that we used in school was designed by Crouwel.
所以对我们来说 Helvetica 就好像是我们的母语一样
So for us it is almost like a natural mother tongue,
是非常自然的一件事
that’s something really natural.
并非我们… 我是说 很多人觉得你是从书本上看到
It’s not that we… I mean, a lot of people think you sort of study it
然后抄袭过来 但是
from books and then copy it or something, but
我更愿意认为它早已流淌在我们的血液里
I would really say that it’s almost in our blood.
还有一件有趣的事 很多人认为 Helvetica 有可能会导致
It’s also funny because a lot of people connect Helvetica
全球化和标准化的危险
sometimes with the dangers of globalization and standardization.
我一点不担心这种情况
I’m not afraid for that quality at all
因为人人都可以调整它来适应自己的需要
because I’m just know that everybody can put a twist on it.
我认为 在字体间距中体现出的国家特色 丝毫不亚于字体本身
I think you can put as much nationality in the spacing of a typeface as in the typeface itself or something else.
我认为像克劳威尔他们对 Helvetica 的使用就是典型荷兰式的
And I think the way people like Crouwel use Helvetica is typically Dutch, I think,
所以我向来对所谓
and that’s why I’m never really impressed by the sort of argument
“Helvetica 是一个全球化怪物”这样的观点不以为然
that Helvetica is a sort of global monster.
伦敦
我并不是那种真正意义上的字体设计师
I’m not one of those people who is a real typographer,
不知道那些关于字母的华丽词汇
I don’t know all the fancy words for all the letters,
比如“连字”啦、“上伸部”、“下降部”之类的东西
and the sort of ligatures and ascenders and descenders and all that kind of thing.
我只是… 只是对某些东西更有感觉
I just more, sort of, react to certain things,
迈克尔·C·普雷斯
Build 工作室
只是把自己感觉对味的东西做出来
and just do what I feel is right,
所以我从来不是那种传统意义上的“字体设计师”
so I’m never sort of a classical type guy.
我为某些事物所着迷 喜欢收集一些东西
So I get obsessed about things, I collect things,
你看 我有这么多零碎的纸片 来自街边常见的事物
you know, I’ve got so many bits and scraps of paper, of things that you find on the street,
以及包装纸 它们让非常普通的事物变得漂亮起来
or wrappers. It’s just making something beautiful out of something very ordinary.
这是我所喜欢的 平常的东西
That’s what I really enjoy, the ordinary things
大多数人可能会一瞥而过 但是我觉得它们很漂亮
that most people would just gloss over, I find really beautiful.
用设计的语言来说 我觉得最重要的是
The biggest thing for me in terms of design
“于细微处获得情感上的回馈”
is to get a sort of emotional response from a piece.
我觉得这是最棒的设计
That’s some of the best design, I think.
我观察周遭的事物 从中获得创作灵感
I see stuff and to me, if it makes me go,
我希望我做出好的作品 这对我来说是最重要的事情
I wish I’d done that, that for me is the biggest thing, you know.
或者让你感到 哇 这真不错
Or you just get this real whooo, kind of like, oooh, that’s nice.
对我而言 这些都是情感的回馈
For me, it’s all about that emotional response.
我一直很想做的一件事是为飞机设计引导标识
One of the things I’ve always really wanted to design is airplane signage,
以及航♥空♥公♥司♥的视觉识别
an identity for an airline.
我很想设计制♥服♥ 又或者是座椅等一整套的东西
I’d love to do the uniforms, or you know, seats and the whole thing, you know,
还有卡车之类的东西 我想一定会很棒的 你懂的 还有很多…
the trucks and that kind of thing. I think it would be brilliant. You know, the sort of…
你看 我做这些十二英寸的唱片封套设计都那么久了
You know, I’ve done these twelve-inch sleeves for so long;
现在我想做些更“大号♥”的设计
I want to go a little bit bigger scale now, you know.
我希望能设计经得起时间考验的东西
It’s that idea that something’s designed to stand the test of time,
最好在二三十年后还有人使用
and hopefully some of the things I’m designing will be still being used in twenty, thirty years.
我会非常开心
I’d love to think that.
我三年前结的婚 当时我设计了婚礼的请柬
I got married about three years ago. I did the wedding invites,
相信我 这是身为一个平面设计师最糟糕的工作
which believe me, is just the worst job you can ever do as a graphic designer.
我曾做过别人的婚礼请柬 但我永远都不想再做了
I’ve done other people’s wedding invites, and I’ll never do one again.
这是我做过压力最大的一个工作
It’s the most stressful job I’ve ever had,
和岳母打交道真的很恐怖 但我还是做了我们自己的
dealing with mother in laws is just horrific. But I did ours,
然后在婚礼仪程卡上
and on the order of service
为感谢 Helvetica 我把马克斯·米丁格写在了致谢名单中
I did a little credit to give thanks to Max Miedinger for Helvetica.
但被我妻子否决了 我只好把他从名单中去掉了
But my wife vetoed that; I had to take it off the invite.
不过这蛮搞笑的…
But, yeah, it was funny…
我记得我开始用 Helvetica 是在 DR （设计共和国）的时候
I think I fell into the step of Helvetica when I was at DR.
我总是很享受使用 Helvetica 的感觉
I always really enjoy using Helvetica
因为… 有些人说他们要用不同的字体来表达不同的意思
because… some people say they use a different typeface because it gives a different feeling.
但我却很乐意接受挑战 让 Helvetica 用不同的方式说话
And I really enjoy the challenge of making Helvetica speak in different ways.
它到现在已经有五十年的历史了
You know, it’s been around for fifty years, coming up,
给人的感觉却还跟新的一样… 当然 它不是有意设计得如此奇妙的
and it’s just as fresh as it was… obviously, it wasn’t intended to be this cool thing,
但它就是这么一款美好的字体
but it’s just a beautiful font.
苏黎世
我们现在对 Helvetica
We are less obsessed with Helvetica
没有以前那么着迷了
than we used to be.
没错 我们对它曾经非常着迷 但现在没那么厉害了
Yes, we were really obsessed with Helvetica, yet not too more, so much.
不过我们还是能接受它的存在
We accepted it somehow… We came to a point where we accepted that it’s just there.
曼努埃尔·克雷布斯
迪米特里·布鲁尼
我们喜欢限制
We like restrictions.
没有限制我们什么也做不了
We can’t operate, we can do nothing without restrictions.
限制越多 我们就越开心
The more restrictions we have, the more happy we are.
在我们读书的时候
When we started school,
那时平面设计的风云人物是布罗迪和卡尔森他们
the influences in graphic design were like Brody and Carson.
到后来我们才真正仔细研究了约瑟夫·米勒-布罗克曼的作品
It’s only after that we really looked at Josef Müller-Brockmann’s work,
以及六十年代的瑞士字体排印设计
and ’60s Swiss Typography.
所以在我们刚启动这间工作室的时候说过
When we started the office we really said
我们希望回顾过去
we wanted to look more back,
找到更结构化的设计
to find more structured design.
对我们来说 精简我们使用的元素是很重要的
For us it’s very important to reduce the elements we use.
在用到字体时 我们会尽可能地只用一种字体
When it comes to type, we will only use, if possible, one typeface,
或两种 而且我们尽可能只用一种字号♥
or two, and if possible we will use one size.
比如我们不喜欢人文主义的字体
We don’t like humanistic typefaces for example,
我们选用的字体必须更具理性色彩
we like it… It must be more rational
否则就可能包含过多表达
because otherwise it has too much expression.
Simple 字体
Norm 平面设计组合，2002 年
我们觉得 Helvetica 暗含了某种设计的规范
We think that Helvetica contains somehow a design program.
它会将你引至某种特定的语言