哈利路亚：莱昂纳德·科恩，一段旅程，一首歌（2021）

And we’re also aware of our own little will…
要成功，要主宰。
to succeed, to dominate,
要影响，要成为国王。
to influence, to be king.
而且不时地
And from time to time,
事情以这样的方式展开，然后…
things arrange themselves in such a way that
那个小愿景就被消灭了。
that tiny will is annihilated.
ISSERMANN：我记得他在那之后被击垮了。
ISSERMANN: I remember that he was crushed after that.
他所有的工作都是如此高♥强♥度
All his work that had been so intense
做一些如此精确和美丽的事情。
and doing something so precise and so beautiful,
然后他们说，”哦，不，不。我们对这个不感兴趣。”
and then they say, “Oh, no, no. We’re not interested in this.”
这是很可怕的。这是可怕的。
It’s horrible. It’s horrible.
对我来说，这就像《阴阳魔界》。
It was like The Twilight Zone for me.
你做某事时如此绝对地确信
You do something you’re absolutely sure is one thing,
而当别人看到它…
and someone else sees it…
却完全颠倒了过来
as reversed as possible.
我说，”孩子，我一点都没意识到音乐世界….
I said, “Boy, I must have no sense of the music world…
居然错得这么离谱。”
to be this wrong.”
突然间，每个人都认为这是错的。
And suddenly, everyone thought it was wrong.
马蒂让我觉得，我以某种方式
And Marty made me feel that I had somehow
破坏了莱昂纳德的唱片事业。
ruined Leonard’s record career.
他进来了，认为这是有史以来最伟大的作品。
He walked in, thinking it was the greatest thing ever,
然后他出局了，而这都是我的错。
and he came out and it was my fault.
我在哥伦比亚公♥司♥的唱片生涯基本结束了。
My record career with Columbia was pretty much done.
所以，我基本上是因为这张专辑停止了制♥作♥唱片。
So I basically stopped making records with this album.
在某个时候，有人说。
At some point, someone said:
是的，你不能再在这个城市工作了，孩子。
Yeah, you’re not working in this town again, kid.
对我来说，那是一件非常市侩的事情。
SLOMAN: To me, that was such a Philistine move.
我是说，它–它代表了所有事都出了问题
I mean, it-it just symbolized everything that’s wrong
那些经营音乐标签的混♥蛋♥们。
with those assholes who run music labels.
我认为一张专辑被拒绝
I don’t think that the rejection of an album
尤其在付款后
after it’s paid for…
这很罕见。
happens that often.
那是非常极端的，是的。
That’s pretty extreme, yeah.
我不知道为什么沃尔特拒绝它。
I have no idea why Walter rejected it.
很明显，这张专辑包括了一首经典之作。
Obviously, the album included one classic.
COHEN：工作已经完成。
COHEN: The work is done.
而且真的很棒，伙计。
And it’s really good, man.
它是无可挑剔的。
It is impeccable.
这些东西都是白纸黑字写下来的。
The stuff’s down in black and white.
不管是出来还是被人看到。
Whether it comes out or whether it’s seen.
我告诉你，这都是为了书。
I’m telling you, this is all for the books.
我觉得我有一个巨大的身后事业在等着我，你知道吗？
I feel I have a huge posthumous career ahead of me, you know?
我的财产会膨胀。[斯洛曼和科恩笑]
My estate will swell. [SLOMAN & COHEN LAUGH]
我的名字将远扬… 我的意思是，你知道。
My name will flourish… I mean, you know.
你看，”勇气是别人看不到的东西。
Look, “Courage is what others can’t see,
从未被肯定的东西。
what is never affirmed.
它是由你扔掉的东西组成的
It is made of what you have thrown away
然后再回来寻找。”
and then come back for.”
我认为莱昂纳德从未相信过
I don’t think that Leonard ever believed
他能力不足
that he was not any good.
我不认为他曾经相信过这一点。
I don’t think he ever believed that.
我不认为，无论谁告诉他。
I don’t think, no matter who told him,
唱片业的巨头告诉他，
what titan of the record industry told him,
或者他们能给他看什么销♥售♥数字，
or what sales figures they could show him,
他都不会相信自己没有能力
he would ever believe that he wasn’t any good.
我认为他不会让任何人
CLARKSON: I don’t think he would let anybody
以这种方式破坏他。
destroy him in that way.
我认为他总是知道自己非常强大。
I think he always knew that he was very strong.
这张专辑最终出版了……
SLOMAN: The album eventually came out…
在新泽西州的某个蠢蛋唱片公♥司♥。
on some dipshit label out of New Jersey.
科恩：在一个非常小的公♥司♥发行。
COHEN: It came out in a very tiny company.
我们不得不到处找人
We had to scurry around to find somebody
只是为了灌制这些唱片。
just to print the records.
所以《多重身份》和“哈利路亚”
LISSAUER: SoVarious Positions and “Hallelujah”
完全没有受到欢迎和认可。
had gone completely unheralded and unrecognized.
有很多非常好的东西
There’s a lot of stuff that’s really good,
无人问津，你明白吗？
nobody really is turned up to, you know?
你所接触到的大部分东西
Most of the things that you’re exposed to
都是广播让你听到的东西。
are just the things you hear on the radio.
科恩：那时候没人听过《哈利路亚》。
COHEN: Nobody heard of “Hallelujah” at that time.
除了迪伦。
Except Dylan.
而迪伦在他的一些音乐会上唱这首歌♥。
And Dylan was singing the song in some of his concerts,
那是一种美妙的肯定。
which was a wonderful affirmation.
迪伦：你说有一个秘密的和♥弦♥？
DYLAN: ♪ You say there was A secret chord ♪
斯洛曼：我与鲍勃就莱昂纳德的工作进行过多次交谈。
SLOMAN: I’ve had many conversations with Bob about Leonard’s work.
所以 “哈利路亚 “是一首适合鲍勃的歌♥曲。
So “Hallelujah” is a song right up Bob’s alley.
采访者： 为什么？
INTERVIEWER: Why?
因为它是，嗯…
Because it’s, um…
鲍勃是另一个精神追求者。鲍勃 —
Bob is another spiritual seeker. Bob–
嘿，我的意思是，你知道，鲍勃是一个精神变色龙。
Heh, I mean, you know, Bob is a spiritual chameleon.
迪伦：《哈利路亚》（Hallelujah）。
DYLAN: ♪ Hallelujah ♪
女记者：鲍勃-迪伦对你个人有什么影响？
FEMALE REPORTER: What impact did Bob Dylan have on you personally?
迪伦先生和我最后一次见面是在一个咖啡馆里
The last time Mr. Dylan and I met was at a café
在法国巴黎的第14区的一家咖啡馆。
in the 14th Arrondissement in Paris, France,
在迪伦先生的巴黎音乐会大获全胜的第二天。
a day after Mr. Dylan’s triumphant concert there.
那是一次愉快的谈话。
It was a pleasant conversation,
可以说是 “行话对谈 “的谈话。
a conversation that could be described as “shop talk,”
我们交换了歌♥词。
in which we traded lyrics,
我们都对对方的天才感到震惊。
both of us astounded at the other’s genius.
SLOMAN：我听说过很多关于巴黎咖啡馆的不同版本。
SLOMAN: I’ve heard a lot of different versions of the Paris café.
其中一个版本是，鲍勃
One version of it goes that Bob
说他非常喜欢《哈利路亚》。
said how much he liked “Hallelujah.”
莱昂纳德说，”是的。
And Leonard said, “Yeah,
我花了七年时间才写出这首歌♥。”
it took me seven years to write that song.”
我只是说“几年”，事实上，比那要多。
I said it was a couple of years. Actually, it was more than that.
但我不好意思告诉他
But I was ashamed to tell him
到底花了多长时间，然后。
exactly how long it took, and then,
谈话继续。
the conversation went on,
我称赞了他写的一首歌♥。
and I praised one of the songs he wrote.
那首歌♥叫 “我和我”，来自一张叫 “异教♥徒♥ “的专辑。
It was called “I and I” from an album called Infidels.
我问他花了多长时间写的。
I asked him how long he took to write it.
他说，”15分钟”。
He said, “15 minutes.”
鲍勃是在开玩笑。
Bob was kidding.
他还曾经说过，那首Lenny Bruce是在一辆
He also once said that he wrote the Lenny Bruce song
出租车后座上写的
in the back of a taxicab.
有人坐出租车就能写出伟大的歌♥曲
COHEN: There are people that write great songs
但我的歌♥却要写很长时间
in the back of taxicabs, but my songs take a long time
我不知道过程是怎样的。
to bring to completion, and I don’t know what the process is.
但我知道，毅力是必不可少的因素。
But I know that perseverance is the essential element.
汉萨德：我喜欢这一点。
HANSARD: I love that.
我喜欢他为这些词而努力工作的事实……
I love the fact that he worked hard for those words…
它–它，呃…
It-it, uh…
这让我们对自己感觉更好。
It makes us feel better about ourselves.
迪伦就像，”是的，我在出租车后座上写的。”
Dylan was like, “Yeah, I wrote it in the back of the cab.”
这就像，是的，好吧，好吧，可能是真的，但是拜托。
It’s like, yeah, okay, okay, you probably did, but come on.
脚踏实地吧，你知道。
Come down to earth, you know.
下来吧，在我们中间站一会儿。
Come down, stand among us for a moment, you know.
这是天赋
It is a gift.
当然，你必须保持你的工具锋利。
Of course, you have to keep your tools sharp,
你必须保持你的技能运作良好。
and you have to keep your skill in a condition of operation.
但真正的歌♥，从何而来？
But the real song, where that comes from,
没有人知道。那是恩典。那是一种礼物。
no one knows. That is grace. That is a gift.
而且，呃…
And, uh…
那是…
That is…
那不是你的。
That is not yours.
如果我知道歌♥曲来自哪里，
If I knew where songs came from,
我就会更经常地去那里。
I would go there more often.
芬利：有一次我们深入谈到创作过程。
FINLEY: One time when we really talked about creative process,
莱昂纳德承认有一种叫做 “Bat Kol “的东西。
Leonard acknowledged there’s something called the Bat Kol,
在《塔木德经》中是，呃……
which in the Talmud is the, uh…
上帝的女性声音，延伸到人们身上。