CLARKSON: How did you feel about the album?
哦，简直是是一场灾难。
Oh, the album is a disaster.
歌♥曲很好，但应该是蒂娜-特纳演唱。
The songs are good, but Tina Turner should have sung it.
或者比尔-梅德利。
Or-or Bill Medley.[CHUCKLES]
与菲尔-斯派克特的合作有点棘手。
And working with Phil Spector was a little tricky.
斯派克特把他的 “声音之墙 “强加给莱昂纳德。
Spector imposed his “Wall of Sound” on Leonard.
这首歌♥的管弦乐很轰动
SLOMAN: It had bombastic orchestration,
很多人认为，
and a lot of people thought that the music
歌♥曲的旋律与歌♥词相冲突。
was competing with the lyrics.
而你知道，对莱昂纳德来说，你必须听歌♥词。
And, you know, with Leonard, you gotta hear the lyrics.
这发生在我生命中一个奇怪的时期
COHEN: That happened, uh, at a curious time in my life
因为我当时正处于低谷。
because I-I was at a very low point.
我的家庭正在解体。
My family was breaking up,
我住在洛杉矶，这对我来说是一个陌生的城市。
I was living in Los Angeles, which was a foreign city to me,
我对我的工作和生活失去了控制。
and I’d lost control of my work and my life.
斯洛曼：我认为
SLOMAN: I think the breakup
他与苏珊娜的分手
of his relationship with Suzanne
是一个非常痛苦的过程。
was a very painful process.
采访者： 莱昂纳德，谈谈 “吉普赛人的妻子 “吧。
INTERVIEWER: Leonard, talk a little about “Gypsy’s Wife.”
科恩：在某种意义上，这首歌♥是为我的吉普赛妻子写的。
COHEN: In a sense, the song was written for my gypsy wife.
但是，呃，从另一个角度来说，
But, uh, in another way,
它只是一首关于，呃。
it’s just a song about, uh,
男人和女人失去彼此的故事。
the way men and women have lost one another.
男人和女人已经远离了彼此
That, uh, men and women have wandered away from each other
并成为彼此的吉普赛人。
and have become gypsies to each other.
采访者1: “苏珊娜”，我得问你一下
INTERVIEWER 1: “Suzanne,” I’ve got to ask you about
因为在你的生活中，有一个苏珊娜。
because there was a Suzanne in your life,
她是两个孩子的母亲。
and she’s the mother of two children.
但你写了一首歌♥叫 “苏珊娜”。
But you wrote a song called “Suzanne,”
今天有人告诉我，那不是关于她的。
and someone told me today that that was not about her.
不，我写这首歌♥是在…
No, I had written the song
我遇到这位特别的女士之前。
before I met this particular lady.
我想我召唤了她。
I guess I summoned her.
所以这是另一个苏珊娜？是另一个苏珊娜，对。
So it was another Suzanne?It was another Suzanne, yeah.
采访者2: 你作为花♥花♥公♥子♥的名声远扬
INTERVIEWER 2: You have a great reputation that goes before you,
也许还会流传到后世
and perhaps in your wake as well, for being a ladies’ man.
这是你应得的吗？
Is it well-earned?
科恩：你知道，这个问题你该问别人
COHEN: You know, I’m the last one to ask.
采访者2: 不，你是我唯一能问的人。
INTERVIEWER 2: No, you’re the only one I can ask.
科林斯：为了莱昂纳德，我可以跳桥。
COLLINS: I would have jumped off a bridge for Leonard.
我愿意做任何事，因为我爱慕他。
I would have done anything because I adored him.
我对他并没有爱慕之情。
I didn’t have a love affair with him.
我是说，他很棒。
I mean, he was wonderful.
帅气…
Handsome…
聪明、神秘、危险…
intelligent, mysterious, dangerous…
我是说，一旦你过了25岁，
I mean, once you’re past 25,
你就知道了。
you sort of know.
所以我知道这一点。
So I knew that.
我一眼就看出它的危险。
I knew dangerous when I saw it.
罗宾逊：莱昂纳德有一种把女人送上神坛的能力。
ROBINSON: Leonard had a way of putting women on a pedestal.
我认为，他认为女性是某种通往正义
He, I think, saw women as part of the path
或启蒙的道路上，必不可少的组成部分。
to some kind of righteousness or enlightenment.
科恩：我们不可抗拒地被彼此吸引。
COHEN: We are irresistibly attracted to one another.
我们对彼此有不可抗拒的孤独感。
We are irresistibly lonely for each other.
而我们必须处理好这个问题。
And we have to deal with this.
而这一点的另一面是
And the other side of that is
对宇宙中的意义也有同样的渴望。
the same appetite for significance in the cosmos,
我们每个人都明白自己在宇宙中的孤独感
where each of us understands his solitude in the cosmos
并渴望得到宇宙的创造者的某种肯定。
and longs for some affirmation by the maker of the cosmos,
被创造者所肯定。
by the creator.
莱昂纳德的整个职业生涯
Leonard’s whole career has been pulled
一直徘徊在圣洁和淫♥荡♥之间。
between holiness and horniness.
所以让我们来谈谈女人。
So let’s talk about women.
你的初恋是什么？
What was your first love?
六年级？一个年长的姑姑？
Sixth grade? An older aunt?
我第一次谈恋爱的时候已经50岁了。
I was 50 years old when I’d first fallen in love.
明年我就70岁了。
I’m going to be 70 next year.
采访者： 不可能。是的。
INTERVIEWER: No way.Yeah.
这一点也不好笑。别笑了。
It’s not funny. Don’t laugh.
科恩：我觉得，当有一种情绪
COHEN: I feel that when there is an emotion
强烈到可以把它写成一首歌♥的时候，
strong enough to gather a song about it,
那么这种情感当中有一些
there’s something about that emotion
坚不可摧的东西
that is indestructible.
ISSERMANN：当我问他时，他说他已经
ISSERMANN: When I asked him, he said that he’d been working
为 “哈利路亚 “工作了两年。
two years already on “Hallelujah.”
然后他在巴黎写了一个部分，你知道吗？
Then he wrote a part in Paris, you know?
当他住在巴黎的时候。
When he was staying in Paris.
还有一部分是在我家里写的。
And a part in my house.
你知道，他的早晨经常从这首歌♥开始。
You know, he was often starting with this song.
早上第一件事就是
In the morning, first thing,
咖啡，然后写 “哈利路亚”。
coffee, then working on “Hallelujah.”
我非常喜欢莱昂纳德在写一部作品时，真的…
I really love when Leonard’s doing a work that is really…
…带给你各种各样的情感
…bringing you all sort of emotions
而且会伤了你的心。
and breaking your heart,
然后在你的心碎之后修补它。
and filling your heart after it’s broken.
你知道，我不知道，这如此美好… …
You know, I don’t know, it’s just beautiful to…
能够听到这样的诗句
To be able to hear such poetry
和如此美妙的音乐，你知道吗？
with such beautiful music, you know?
采访者： 他在写诗的时候会问你意见吗？
INTERVIEWER: Would he try verses out on you?
问我吗？不，他从不问。
Asking me? No, he was never asking,
但他是在我面前演奏。
but he was playing in front of me.
但并不真的像在音乐会上那样。
But I was not really like somebody at a concert.
他在工作。我工作了很久。
He was working. I was working a lot.
我们俩都工作得很多。
We were both working a lot.
所以我是那个场景的一部分。
So I’m part of that landscape.
我觉得是这样。
I feel it like that.
你只是一个人。
You are just a person,
或者在那一刻，你可以是狗或猫
or you could be the dog or the cat at the moment
在有灵感的地方。
where there was inspiration.
它是如此神秘。
It’s so mysterious.
“哈利路亚”像一首象征主义的诗，你知道吗？
Hallelujah is like a symbolist poem, you know?
它是晦涩的。非常晦涩难懂。
It’s obscure. It’s very obscure.
我总是把 “哈利路亚 “视为
I always see “Hallelujah”
一只在房♥间里飞翔的鸟。
like a bird that is flying in a room,
有时还触及文化的墙壁。
and sometimes touching the walls of the culture.
它就像一个–一个谜语。
It’s like a– a riddle.
拉特索知道的比我多。
Ratso knows more than me.
哦，是的，是的。当然了。
Oh, yeah, yeah. Of course.
我们上次谈话的时候，我们正在谈论 “哈利路亚”。
The last time we talked, we were talking about “Hallelujah.”
而这是一首…
And this is something…
从我认识你那时候，你就一直在写这首歌♥。
You’ve been working on this for as long as I’ve known you.
科恩：是的，是的，我一直在写这首歌♥。
COHEN: Yeah, yeah, I’ve been working on that song.
我想我在收集的记事本上有记录
And I think I-I have notes in my present collection
在记事本上
of-of notebooks.
科恩：哦，好的，这里，这里。
COHEN: Oh, okay, here, here.
当大卫演奏时，他的手指流血了
When David played His fingers bled
他为自己说的每一个字而流泪
He wept for every word he said
你仍然听到他
You hear him still
你听到他对你唱歌♥”
You hear him singing to you”
无尽的变化。
Endless variations.
即使在这里，它说
Even here, it says:
宝贝，我以前来过这里
Baby, I’ve been here before
我知道这样的房♥间是为了什么”
I know what rooms like this Are for”
宝贝，我曾经来过这里
Baby, I’ve been here before
我知道这个房♥间这个弯曲的地板”
I know this room This crooked floor”
还有 “宝贝，我曾经来过这里
And “Baby I’ve been here before
我知道这个房♥间，我走过这层楼”
I know this room I’ve walked this floor”
我是说…
I mean…
这些都是 “哈利路亚 “的歌♥曲。
These are all the “Hallelujah” songs.
采访者： 他有没有提到过他可能写了多少诗句？
INTERVIEWER: Did he ever mention how many verses he might’ve written?
出于某种原因，我想到了180这个数字。
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