哈利路亚：莱昂纳德·科恩，一段旅程，一首歌（2021）

and God knows I want to celebrate it.
但我当然知道
But I certainly know
对它的任何分♥析♥都是徒劳的。
that any analysis of it would be futile.
SLOMAN：对。
SLOMAN: Right.
罗宾逊：我们当时正在创作新的材料。
ROBINSON: We were working on new material.
所以他到我的工作室来，……。
So he was coming over to my studio and…
有一天他过来，他说
One day he came over and he said:
知道吗，我去了趟ATM，没钱了。
You know, I went to the ATM and there’s no money.
我被洗劫一空。”
I’ve been ripped off.”
采访者： 我想确定我说把它清楚了。
INTERVIEWER: I want to make sure I’ve said this clearly,
你发现你的业务经理
you found out that your business manager
差不多偷了你所有的钱。
had basically stolen all your money,
那些赚来的钱
the money that had been made
包括你的歌♥曲的版权出让的钱。
from selling your song publishing,
还有你的退休基金。
and your retirement funds.
科恩：没错。是的，事情就是这样的。
COHEN: That’s true. Yes, that’s the way it was.
柯林斯：他真的把一切都交给了他的助手。
COLLINS: He really turned everything over to his assistant.
他把一切都签给了她。
He signed everything off to her.
她可以任意处置他所有的一切
She could do anything she wanted with everything that he had.
有些事情…
Something that…
这足以让你垂头丧气
COHEN: It was enough to put a dent in your mood,
你明白我的意思吗？
you know what I mean?
采访者： 是否有一种感觉，。
INTERVIEWER: Is there a feeling that,
现在我最好回去工作？
Now I better get back to work?
COHEN：当然。
COHEN: Sure.
但那是个关于经济压力的玩笑。
But I joke about the economic pressures.
我确实因为这个原因不得不回去工作。
I really did have to get back to work for that reason,
但也有另一种压力。
but there’s also another kind of pressure.
你知道，70岁已经绝对不年轻了
You know, 70 is indisputably not youth.
我不说这是垂老之年。
I don’t say it’s extreme old age,
但它已经在老年的山脚下。
but it is the foothills of old age,
而那种完成工作的迫切要求
and that urgent invitation to complete one’s work
是我命定之事
is very much in my life.
而且它比经济上的需要更迫切。
And it’s more urgent than the economic necessity.
这两者的重合只是一个巧合。
That the two coincide is just a coincidence.
COHEN：很高兴和你谈话。SLOMAN：是的！我也是。
COHEN: Great talking to you.SLOMAN: Yeah!
COHEN：我已经很久没有和你说话了。
COHEN: I haven’t spoken to you for a long time.
斯洛曼：我记得我们上次谈话时，你正在担心
SLOMAN: I remember last time we talked, you were worrying about
对于像你这样的老家伙来说，如何保持尊严？
what was a dignified position for an old guy like you,
带着你的吉他从一家咖啡馆到另一家？
going from coffee shop to coffee shop with your guitar?
COHEN：对。
COHEN: Right.
斯洛曼：那么你会不会，呃，巡回演出？
SLOMAN: So are you gonna, uh, tour?
COHEN：我可能会，因为这是个变老和死去的好方式。
COHEN: I may because it’s a good solution to old age and death.
一直玩到死。没错
Just play till you drop.SLOMAN: Right.
你可以让你的作品保持活力。
COHEN: And you keep your work alive,
而你的能力也会越来越好。
and your chops get better and better.
这是一个确定优先事项的问题。
It’s a matter of establishing priorities.
所以莱昂纳德复出了。
SLOMAN: So Leonard came out again.
但我认为他…
But I think he was…
有点忐忑不安
kind of apprehensive
你知道，他会被如何接受
in how, you know, he’d be received
因为已经过去这么久了。
’cause it’d been so long.
他根本不相信这能行得通。
He wasn’t at all confident that it was going to work.
这就是为什么我们在一个非常小的地方开始巡演。
And that’s why we started the tour in a very small venue.
你知道，即使当我在鲍尔迪山的修道院里时，
COHEN: You know, even when I was in the monastery at Mount Baldy,
我也会不时地问自己。
there were times when I would ask myself:
你真的永远不会再站在舞台上了吗？
Are you really never going to get up on a stage again?
上台的想法总是挥之不去。
The idea of performing was always unresolved.
我并不是说我一点也不焦虑。
I don’t mean to suggest I’m not at all anxious.
但幸运的是，这个乐队非常好。
But fortunately, this band is so good.
我们在排练厅里融为一体。
We jelled in the rehearsal hall.
罗宾逊：我们排练了很长时间。
ROBINSON: We rehearsed for a long time.
长得离谱的时间。
An unusually long time.
三个月，我想。
Three months, I think.
莱昂纳德真的很尊重他的听众。
Leonard really honored his audiences.
他每天晚上在演出前都说：
He said every night before the show:
我们会给你们带来我们的一切。
We’re gonna give you everything we’ve got.
我已经很久没有站在这里了。
It’s been a long time since I stood out here.
那是大约，呃，14年前。
It was about, uh, 14 years ago.
我当时60岁，只是一个有疯狂梦想的孩子。
I was 60 years old, just a kid with a crazy dream.
不要停。
Don’t stop.
精彩绝伦。
Sublime.
非常感谢，朋友们。
Thanks so much, friends.
真的是非常荣幸
It’s been a real privilege
很荣幸今晚能为你们演出。
and honor to play for you tonight.
罗宾逊：然后，当然，那只是个开头。
ROBINSON: And then, of course, it just grew from there.
他们不断地预订音乐会场地，而且不断地售罄。
They kept booking concerts and they kept being sold out.
这就像，”哦，好吧，”我们就这样一直走下去。
It was like, “Oh, okay,” and we just kept going.
这里是《新鲜空气》，我是Terry Gross。
This isFresh Air, I’m Terry Gross,
与莱昂纳德-科恩一起回来。
back with Leonard Cohen.
这位伟大的作曲家和歌♥手重新上路了。
The great songwriter and singer is back on the road,
他15年来的第一次巡演。
doing his first tour in 15 years.
莱昂纳德-科恩的一个显著特点是
SLOMAN: One of the remarkable things about Leonard
是他对自己所做的一切都非常投入。
is how much he throws himself into whatever he does.
看看他，快80岁了。
Look at him, close to 80.
他这个年龄的人通常关心的是
People his age are more worried
能不能抢到晚餐的早鸟特♥价♥。
about getting to the early-bird dinner special.
我的意思是，莱昂纳德在舞台上
SLOMAN: I mean, Leonard is on-stage
三个小时，又唱又跳
for three hours jumping up and down,
在三个小时的演出结束时跳下台。
and skipping off at the end of a three-hour set.
我们来了。
Here we go.
15年来第一次回到舞台上，
GROSS: What have you learned being back on-stage
你学到了什么？
for the first time in 15 years?
学到了什么？我–我不知道。
Learned? I– I don’t know,
如你所知，很难教给一只老狗新招数。
it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks, as you know.
我不知道我是否学到了什么，但我一直，嗯……
I don’t know if I’ve learned anything, but I’ve been, um…
我一直很感激，因为一切都很顺利。
I’ve been grateful that it’s going well.
因为…
Because…
你永远不知道会发生什么
you never know what’s gonna happen
当你踏上舞台的时候。
when you step on the stage.
你能卖♥♥出一场音乐会的唯一方法
The only way you can sell a concert
就是把自己置于危险之中。
is to put yourself at risk.
如果你不这么做，人们会知道。
And if you don’t do that, people know,
他们回家时也还是会喜欢这些歌♥的感觉。
and they go home with a feeling that they liked the songs,
但是，你知道，相比现场，他们更愿意在家里听。
but, you know, they prefer to listen to them at home.
但是，如果你能真正站在你的歌♥曲的中心，
But if you can really stand at the center of your song,
如果你占据那个空间
if you can inhabit that space
并真正表达出
and really stand
你自己的情感的复杂度。
for the complexity of your own emotions,
那么每个人都会感觉很好。
then everybody feels good.
音乐家们感觉良好，你感觉良好
The musicians feel good and you feel good
来的人也感觉很好。
and the people who’ve come feel good.
当人们听到 “哈利路亚 “时，
LISSAUER: When people hear “Hallelujah,”
它必须是某种普遍共情的东西
it must be something so universal.
它真的，真的很强大。
It’s really, really powerful.
现在，这非常重要。
Now, that’s a big deal.
我们没有机会参与很多事情… …
We don’t get to be involved in very many things that…
能如此强烈地冲击人们的感情。
hit people as strongly as that does.
我的第一次个人表演，是在科切拉音乐节上。
PALMER: I was doing my first-ever solo show at Coachella,
我记得我看着演出阵容，然后说：
and I remember looking at the lineup and going:
哦，我的天哪! 莱昂纳德-科恩。
Oh, my God! Leonard Cohen.
看到莱昂纳德-科恩感觉是一个美丽、神圣的时刻。
Seeing Leonard Cohen felt like a beautiful, holy moment,
在外面有那么多的人看着他。
to be outside with all of those people watching him.
那是一个教会时刻。
It was a church moment.
斯皮克托尔：你会感觉有一位现代的祈祷者。
SPEKTOR: You get this feeling of having a modern prayer.
我想这就是为什么那么多人来观看演出
I think that’s why people were coming to the shows so much
因为他们得到了这种感觉。
because they were getting that feeling.
甚至是他如何致谢
Even how he thanked everybody,
感谢参与工作的每个人。
everybody in the crew,
和人们所做出的所有的努力
and all the different jobs that people did
来促成演出。