哈利路亚：莱昂纳德·科恩，一段旅程，一首歌（2021）

科恩：当然，”哈利路亚 “这个词是如此丰富。
COHEN: The word “Hallelujah,” of course, is so rich.
它有如此丰富的共鸣。
It’s so abundant in resonances.
人们一直在唱这个词
People have been singing that word
几千年来都是如此。
for thousands of years,
只是为了确认我们在这里的小旅程。
just to affirm our little journey here.
克拉克森：整首歌♥我都好喜欢
CLARKSON: I just love the whole song
因为在我看来，这首歌♥概括了莱昂纳德的很多东西。
’cause it seems to me to sum up so much of what Leonard is.
罗宾逊：这种与上帝的关系
ROBINSON: This relationship with God
他一直在挣扎…。
that he struggled with so much…
他的一半在《圣经》里
He’s taking one part Biblical,
另一半在昨晚他睡的女人那。
one part the woman he slept with last night.
芬利：他表示，神圣的独处
FINLEY: He expresses that being alone with the divine
可以救赎我们。
is what can redeem us.
斯洛曼：他一直是一个精神上的追求者。
SLOMAN: He was always a spiritual seeker.
这让他到达了某个
And that gave him a dimension
大多数摇滚明星都无法想象的层面。
that most rock stars couldn’t even fathom.
和声：哈里路…
CHOIR: ♪ Hallelu…
你如此热情地喜欢我的唱片，真是太好了。
It’s nice of you to greet my records so warmly.
你已经做了很久了。
You’ve been doing this for a long time.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
他们总是推荐作家
COHEN: They always suggest writers
我总是说，”让Larry Sloman来做这个。
and I always say, “Get Larry Sloman to do this,
他是唯一一个懂这个的人。”
he’s the only one who gets it.”
在某些方面，我是零号♥病人
In some respects, I was Patient Zero
在这个成为 “哈利路亚 “的病毒中。
in this virus that became “Hallelujah.”
所以四年前。
So four years ago,
我坐在你的房♥子里
I’m sitting in your house
让我着迷的是，你给我看了你的书。
and what amazed me was when you showed me your books.
这些歌♥曲的记录
The documentation of these songs
以及这些歌♥曲如何经历这个迷人的过程。
and how these songs go through this amazing process.
特别是像 “哈利路亚 “这样的歌♥曲。
Especially with a song like “Hallelujah.”
我是说，一本又一本的诗集。
I mean, book after book after book with verses.
科恩：好吧，我写这些东西非常辛苦。
COHEN: Well, I always thought that I sweated over this stuff.
但我不知道这些辛苦意味着什么
But I had no idea what sweating over this stuff meant
直到我发现自己身处陋室
until I found myself in a shabby room
在纽约皇家通酒店
at the Royalton Hotel,
试图完成 “哈利路亚”
trying to finish “Hallelujah”
却无法完成它。
and not being able to finish it.
我记得我穿着内♥裤♥，躺在地毯上。
And I remember being in my underwear, on the carpet,
把我的头往地板上撞。
banging my head against the floor,
并说，”我写不下去了”。
and saying, “I can’t do it anymore.”
它太孤独了，太难了。
It’s too lonely, it’s too hard.
你认为每个人都会对一首流行歌♥曲有这么多的关注吗？
Do you think everybody takes this much care with a pop song?
斯洛曼：如果你想理解“哈利路亚”这首歌♥
SLOMAN: You know, you can’t begin to understand “Hallelujah”
你必须重访那条曲折漫长的路
without investigating the long, winding path
它引领莱昂纳德到了某个地方
that got Leonard to a place
在那儿，他才能写出这样的歌♥
where he could tackle a song like that.
我的意思是，莱昂纳德直到30岁才真正开始写歌♥。
I-I mean, Leonard didn’t really even start writing songs until he was about 30.
这个月，一本新书在加拿大出版了。
SOLES: This month, a new book was published in Canada,
书名是《美丽的失败者》，作者是莱昂纳德-科恩。
the titleBeautiful Losers, the author Leonard Cohen.
有一些观众知道莱昂纳德-科恩
There are those of the audience who know Leonard Cohen
也许主要是作为一个诗人。
perhaps primarily as a poet.
他的眼睛穿过我的眼睛，比爱更闪亮
His eyes through my eyes Shine brighter than love
哦，在鸽子之前送出乌鸦……
O send out the raven Ahead of the dove…
事实上，莱昂纳德并不希望成为一名诗人
CLARKSON: Leonard, in fact, wishes not to be a poet
他想做一个现代吟游者。
but a kind of modern minstrel.
他对60年代中期的音乐感到非常兴奋。
He’s become very excited by the music of the mid ’60s.
最近，他生活中的喜怒哀乐
And recently, his joys and sorrows of living
诞生出简单、美丽
have come forth as simple, beautiful
有时是悲伤的歌♥曲。
and sometimes sad songs.
让我们来听听其中的一首。
Let’s listen to one of them.
克拉克森：那是他第一次在电视上唱歌♥。
CLARKSON: That was the very first time he sang on television.
小说即将问世。
The novel was coming out.
然后他们说，”他也要唱歌♥了”。
And then they said, “He’s going to sing too.”
我们说，”哦，当然。为什么不呢？
And we said, “Oh, sure. Why not?
然后我们再谈小说的事。”
And then we’ll talk about the novel.”
你必须承认，其他人会这样看你：
You must admit that, for other people looking at you,
莱昂纳德-科恩，诗人，小说家。
Leonard Cohen, the poet, the novelist,
一个来自蒙特利尔的犹太后裔
the scion of a Jewish family from Montreal,
流行歌♥手和流行歌♥曲的作家… …
pop singer and writer of pop songs…
所有这些身份，嗯。
All of these things, um,
他们共同构成了Leonard Cohen。
they may certainly add up to Leonard Cohen,
虽然它们乍看之下相当混杂。
but they do look rather complex at first.
嗯，我认为，嗯，你知道，嗯……。
Well, I think, that, uh, you know, the, um…
经过很多努力，身份之间的区分已经淡化了
The borders have– Have faded between a lot of endeavors,
比如诗人或歌♥手。
like the poet or the singer.
类似这种贴标签式的表达
All those kinds of expression,
我认为完全没有意义。
I think are completely meaningless.
它们对我没有任何意义。
They don’t mean anything to me.
这只取决于你从何处入手
It’s just a matter of what your hand falls on.
如果你能从唱歌♥入手。
And if you can make what your hand falls on sing,
你就能成为歌♥手…
then you can just do it…
克拉克森：那时我还不太了解他。
CLARKSON: I didn’t know him very well then.
我不知道他是否会坚持下去。
I didn’t know whether he would hang in there with it.
毕竟，我知道，大家都知道，
After all, I knew, and everybody did know,
他来自蒙特利尔的一个富有的家庭。
that he came from a wealthy family in Montreal,
他在很多特权中长大。
that he’d grown up in a lot of privilege,
那么他是个浪子吗？
and was he a dilettante?
那种3分钟热度过去，就会说：
Was he going to drop this and say,
也许我可以去学法律？或者其他什么。
Maybe I’ll study law? Or whatever.
我来到了纽约
COHEN: I came down to New York
我拜访了一些经纪人，他们说：
and I visited some agents, and they’d say:
回头吧，孩子，你做这行是不是太老了？
Turn around, kid, aren’t you too old for this game?
那时候我32岁。
I was 32 at the time.
没取得过什么很大的成功
And I didn’t have very much success
没获得任何人的青睐。
in getting the ear of anyone.
科林斯：请和我一起欢迎
COLLINS: Please welcome with me
一位伟大的作曲家、诗人、小说家和朋友。
a great songwriter, poet, novelist and friend,
莱昂纳德-科恩。
Leonard Cohen.
采访者： 那么，朱迪，你和莱昂纳德-科恩
INTERVIEWER: So, Judy, how did you and Leonard Cohen
是如何一起登上这个舞台的？
wind up on this stage together?
哦，上帝啊…
Oh, my…
1966年，莱昂纳德来找我，
Well, Leonard came to me in 1966,
他说，”我不会唱歌♥，也不会弹吉他。
and he said, “I can’t sing and I can’t play the guitar,
我不知道这算不算是一首歌♥。” 然后他…
and I don’t know if this is a song.” And then he…
在他弹唱完后我说，
And I said, after he finished:
嗯，这是一首歌♥，我明天就把它录下来。
Well, that is a song and I’m recording it tomorrow.
这真是太棒了，因为我之前演奏过这首歌♥，
COHEN: It’s a great thing, because I had played it
在蒙特利尔，为一些人演奏，他们说。
for somebody in Montreal, and they said:
不，这样的歌♥太多了。
No, there’s a lot of songs like that.
科林斯：它在我的一张专辑里，叫做《在我生命中》。
COLLINS: It was on an album of mine called In My Life.
而 “苏珊娜 “是把它推向顶峰的那首。
And “Suzanne” was the one that kind of drove it over the top.
所以我说，”好吧，你不能再躲在暗处了。
So I said, “Well, you can’t hide in the shadows anymore.
你必须在公众面前唱歌♥。”
You have to come sing in public.”
我在这里有一个约会。
And I had a date here.
而且，呃，那是为WBAI举♥行♥的一次大型筹款活动。
And, uh, it was a big fundraiser for WBAI.
每个人都在，我想吉米-亨德里克斯也在这个节目上。
Everybody was here, I think Jimi Hendrix was on the show.
那是一大堆人。
It was a whole bunch of people.
科恩：朱迪说服我去参加这个。
COHEN: Judy kind of talked me into doing this.
她邀请我上台，然后我开始唱歌♥。
She invited me out on stage, and I started singing,
吉他完全走调了。
and the guitar was completely out of tune,
反正我很害怕。
and I was scared anyways.
所以为了使自己免于蒙羞，我离开了。
So rather than humiliate myself, I left.
科林斯：他说，”我做不来这个。”
COLLINS: He said, “I just can’t do this.”
然后他走下了舞台。
And he walked off the stage.
恐怖。哈-哈。
Terror. Ha-ha.
纯粹的恐怖，而且大家都喜欢这样。
Sheer terror, and everybody loved it.
我是说，他们都喜欢你崩溃的样子。
I mean, they all love you when you fall apart.
你知道，他们… … 他们变得如此兴奋。
You know, they have– They get so excited.
所以我和他一起回来了。