BBC：古代圣贤（2015）（2）

绝对地，苏格拉底说，
Absolutely. Socrates is saying,
你不必依赖神的奇思妙想和反复无常
you don’t have to depend on the whims and the caprices of the gods.
这真的是关于个人赋权和责任
It’s really about individual empowerment and responsibility.
而且，而他继承了一个传统
And furthermore, whereas he inherited a tradition which said
男人有一种美德，女人有一种美德，
there’s one kind of virtue for a man, another for a woman, one for,
你知道，一个出身名门的人，另一个是奴隶，
you know, a well-born person, another for a slave,
他说，不，这是关于人类善的知识，在普遍意义上，
he’s saying, no it’s about knowledge of the human good,in a universal sense,
每个人都可以使用
it’s available to everybody.
西塞罗后来谈到他时说，他把哲学从天堂带到了人们的家中
Cicero later says of him he brings philosophy down from the heavens and into people’s homes.
进入人们各自的家园
Into peoples’ individual homes.
在西方思想中，这确实是一个非常激进的时刻
This really is a very radical moment in western thought.
令人兴奋，充满力量，但也很危险
Exciting and empowering but, also dangerous.
的确，因为即使苏格拉底本人
Indeed, because even though Socrates himself
据我们所知，他个人很虔诚的
was personally very religious as far as we know,
非常虔诚，这是对社会的威胁，是对传统宗教的威胁
very pious, this is socially threatening, it’s threatening traditional religion
当然，这些信息让很多人感到不安
and of course these messages are disturbing to a lot of people.
苏格拉底并不否认神的存在，
Socrates didn’t deny the existence of the gods,
但是，他强调人类塑造自己命运的能力，
but, his emphasis on the capacity of humans to shape their own destiny,
可能会被视为挑战他们的传统角色
could be seen as challenging their traditional roles.
幸运的是，向诸神献祭的火，
Fortunately the sacrificial fires to the gods,
它燃烧了几个世纪，现在变成了
which had burnt for centuries, were now
在一座同样珍视言论自♥由♥的城市里点燃
lit in a city that also prized freedom of expression.
最初，苏格拉底的非正统思想是被容忍♥的
Initially Socrates’ unorthodox ideas were tolerated.
但是，在公元前431年，美好的时光似乎即将结束
But, then in 431 BC, the good times looked set to end.
波提亚的暴♥力♥升级为全面冲突
The violence of Potidea escalated into all-out conflict.
雅典与其复仇者之间无情的伯罗奔尼撒战争
The pitiless Peloponnesian war between Athens and its nemesis…
斯巴达城邦
the city-state of Sparta.
在国家考古博物馆，
Here at the National Archaeological museum,
骨灰瓮描绘的是令人心碎的场景
funerary urns depict the heart-breaking
雅典人经历的苦难和损失
suffering and loss experienced by the Athenians.
斯巴达部落肆虐雅典周围的乡村，
With Spartan hordes ravaging the countryside around Athens,
伯里克利命令每一位公民
Pericles ordered every citizen from the
周围的区域将进入城墙内
surrounding area to come inside the city walls.
这是一个致命的策略
It was a fatal strategy.
一种新的恐怖从内部释放出来
A new kind of terror was unleashed from within.
雅典变成了一个巨大的难民营
Athens became one giant refugee camp.
随着人口被围困在一起，一种致命的疾病像野火一样蔓延
With the population hemmed in together,
a deadly disease spread like wildfire.
症状很可怕，
The symptoms were ghastly,
出汗、发烧、化脓性皮疹和剧烈咳嗽
sweats, fevers, a suppurating rash, and a racking cough.
保守估计，至少三分之一的人口被消灭
At a conservative estimate, at least one third of the population was wiped out.
愤怒和沮丧的雅典人攻击
Angry and frustrated Athenians turned on
他们的宣传画，并将伯里克利从办公室撤职
their poster-boy, and removed Pericles from office.
据信，他最终死于瘟疫
Eventually he died, it’s believed, of the plague himself.
繁荣的雅典已经足够强大
A thriving Athens had been robust enough
来解决苏格拉底的尖锐问题
to deal with the searching questions of Socrates.
现在随着信心的消退，宽容受到了威胁
Now with confidence ebbing away, tolerance was threatened.
然而，在同样的危机感和危险感的激励下，
Yet, energized by the same sense of crisis and danger,
激发了孔子和佛陀的哲学，
which motivated the philosophies of Confucius and the Buddha,
苏格拉底似乎很成功
Socrates seems to have flourished.
现在他40多岁了，被战争包围，
By now in his 40’s, and surrounded by war,
死亡和疾病，他的搜寻又有了新的强度
death and disease, his search took on a new intensity.
我们如何决定什么是好的？
How do we decide what is good?
财富是好事吗？
Is wealth a good thing?
什么让我们真正快乐？
What makes us truly happy?
在雅典，苏格拉底不是唯一一个
In Athens, Socrates wasn’t the only one
与四面楚歌♥的民众讨论重大想法
discussing big ideas with its embattled citizens.
智者们是自信的、炫耀的教育者
The sophists were cock-sure, showy educators.
说服性辩论艺术大♥师♥
Masters in the art of persuasive argument.
他们在法律审判中充当演讲人，
They acted as speech makers in legal trials,
在体育场里招待大批观众
entertaining huge crowds in stadiums.
至少可以说，苏格拉底是怀疑的
Socrates was skeptical, to say the least.
和智者一样，他挑战了正统思想
Like the Sophists, he challenged orthodox thought.
他也坚信哲学应该有更高的目标
But, he also, passionately believed that philosophy should have a higher purpose.
聪明的想法和有说服力的论据还不够
Clever ideas, and persuasive arguments, just weren’t enough.
对智者来说，聪明的语言就是货币
To the Sophists smart words were currency.
他们把服务卖♥♥给出价最高的人
They sold their services to the highest bidder.
但是，苏格拉底拒绝付钱，更喜欢朋友们的施舍
But, Socrates refused to be paid, preferring hand-outs from friends.
这并不是说他不享受世俗的快乐
That’s not to say he didn’t enjoy worldly pleasures.
他喝酒做♥爱♥
He drank and made love.
但是，他赤脚、未洗衣服，在有物质观念的雅典很突出
But, barefoot, and unwashed, he stood out in materially-minded Athens.
我们听说他穿着破旧的长袍穿过商店的摊位，
We’re told that he marched past shop stalls, in his shabby robes,
说“我不需要多少东西”
saying “How many things I don’t need”.
他认为财富是无常的
He saw wealth as impermanent.
从寻找绝对值的过程中分散注意力
A distraction from the search for absolute values.
苏格拉底相信你买♥♥不到知识
Socrates believed you couldn’t buy knowledge.
而智慧并不是来自于听长篇大论
And wisdom didn’t come from listening to long speeches.
它只能通过其他途径实现
It could only come through something else.
对话
Dialog.
贝蒂尼，我明白你是来做一部关于苏格拉底的纪录片的
So, Bettany, understand you’re here to do a documentary about Socrates.
对
Yes.
你为什么要拍这部纪录片？
Why are you making this documentary?
他的苏格拉底方法是这样的，
His Socratic method worked something like this,
[听不见]
[inaudible]
苏格拉底会在街上找人
Socrates would engage someone in the street.
我可以学习更多关于苏格拉底的知识，我可以分享这些知识
I can learn something more about Socrates and I can share that knowledge
和正在观看的人在一起
with the people who are watching it.
这些都是大词，知识和真理，我们可以选一个吗
These are big words, knowledge and truth, shall we take one of them…
这意味着什么？
what would it mean?
他会问他们一个道德问题
He’d ask them an ethical question.
那么，你想传授什么知识？
So, what is this thing, knowledge you want to impart?
在我的书中，知识是对人类的热爱
In my book, knowledge is love of what it is to be human.
这个人会试图定义这个概念
The person would attempt to define the concept.
但是，苏格拉底会发现他们的答案不一致
But, Socrates would find inconsistenciesin their answers.
知识就是爱
Knowledge is love okay.
如果你想做阑尾炎手术，
So, if you wanted to have an operation for appendicitis,
你会去找一个充满爱但对手术一无所知的女人吗？
would you go to woman who was full of love, but, knew nothing about surgery?
不
No!
好吧，我想说，知识作为爱的定义还不够好
Okay, so, I would say that the definition of knowledge as love is not good enough.
他们将被迫撤回自己的定义
They would be forced to withdraw their definition.
并重新制定和完善他们的想法
And to reformulate and refine their ideas.
那么，让我们再试一次
So, let’s try it again.
有一种知识还是多种知识？
Is there one kind of knowledge or many kinds of knowledge?
-知识是…慢慢来我不知道答案
-Knowledge is one th– -Take your time I don’t know the answers.
也许知识是一回事，但知道是很多事
Maybe knowledge is one thing, but knowing is many things.
这一过程将螺旋上升
This process would spiral
进入一轮令人眼花缭乱的问答
into a dizzying round of question and answer.
知道星星如何移♥动♥，知道肝脏如何运作
To know how the stars move and to know how the liver operates
-是一样的-不，它们不是一回事
-is the same thing. -No, they’re not the same thing.
拥有大量知识的人什么都知道吗？
Does the person who possesses knowledge in the big way know everything?
在这两者之间，谁可能是最好的制石者？
Between those two, who is probably the best stone maker?
那个人?
Uh, the one who…
-我不知道，我不知道-来吧
-I don’t know, I don’t know! -Come on!
我放弃，我放弃
I give up, I give up.
苏格拉底把他的角色比作助产士，
Socrates likens his role to that of a midwife,
帮助培养和传递他人思想的人
who helps to nurture and deliver the thoughts of others.
但是，这从来都不是一个容易的出生
But, it was never an easy birth.
我必须说，你向我证明的一件事是，我什么都不知道
I have to say that the one thing you’ve proved to me is that I know nothing.
不，不，是我
No, no. That’s me.
我是让别人知道事情的专家，但我不擅长–
I am the expert at making other people know things but, I’m no good–
我什么都不知道，这是我为自己声称的唯一知识
I know nothing and that is the only knowledge I claim for myself.
这种苏格拉底式的方法既迷人又刺♥激♥
That Socratic method is fascinating and stimulating
但是，这也令人愤怒
but, it is also infuriating.
是的，因为这是在口头环境中，就像我们做的那样，
Yes because it’s in an oral context the way we do it,
苏格拉底有一个著名的信念，那就是口头语言高于书面语言，
and Socrates famously believed in the supremacy of the oral over the written,
这也会激起人们的情绪
and that also stirs up the emotions.
首先，他假装自己是个傻瓜
First of all in his pretense of being the fool.
-无知的人-什么都不知道是的
-The ignorant man… -Of knowing nothing yeah.
是的，因为那是他的工具，
Yes and because that is his tool,
他会转而反对他的朋友或对手
that he turns in fact against his friends or opponents as you may take it
让他们承认自己不想承认的事情–