再现康宁汉（2019）

我对那种涉及一种情绪、一种感觉
I never was interested in dancing that referred
或者传达某种意义上的音乐
fo a mood, or a feeling, or in a sense,
从来提不起跳舞的兴趣
expressed the music.
舞蹈不应该参考外界的事物
So that the dancing does not refer.
跳舞就是跳舞
It is what it is.
就是舞蹈时带来的整个视觉体验。
It’s that whole visual experience.
再现康宁汉
向外， 拉伸
Out. Stretch.
二、下、下
Two, down and down.
向上，对，一步。
Up. Yeah. Step.
坚持，坚持，坚持
Hold. Hold. Hold.
今晚，“舞蹈世界”有请到了 默斯·康宁汉
Tonight, the world of dance welcomes Merce Cunningham.
他要求我们不要称他为前卫编舞家，
He has asked us not to call him an avant-garde choreographer,
或现代舞编导
or a modern dance choreographer.
所以我问他，我们应该怎么称呼他。
So I’m going to ask him what we may call him.
好吧，我是一名舞者。
Well, I’m a dancer.
这样就可以了？
That says everything?
嗯，这对我来说已经足够了。
Well, that’s sufficient for me.
因为我和我的舞者是一样的，
Since my dancers and I are a group of human beings,
我们在舞台上，
we are that on the stage,
正如在现实生活中一样，
as we are in real life,
用各种方式展开运动
people moving around in various ways.
我们不去解释。
But we don’t interpret something.
我们呈现一些东西，我们做一些事情，
We present something, we do something,
然后任何在观众席中欣赏它的人
and then any kind of interpretation is left
自然会有自己的解释
up to anybody looking at it in the audience.
我对运动的想法是
My idea about movement is that any movement
任何运动都能用于舞蹈之中。
is possible for dancing.
当然，我所说的是广义上的运动，从彻底的静止
That ranges all the way from nothing, of course,
到那些人们能够想到的
up to the most extended kind of movement
极限性的动作
that one might think up.
你是学现代舞出身的，
Your background is in modern dance,
对吗，康宁汉？
is it, Merce Cunningham?
是的
Yes.
现在，你有没有发展出一种自己独特的技巧？
Now, did you evolve a technique of your own?
嗯，无论是身体上还是技术上，
Well, physically or technically,
我每次看到伸展运动时
I was interested in extending
都对这一运动的可能性很感兴趣。
movement possibilities as I saw them.
我认为芭蕾的腿部技巧令人惊讶，
I thought that a ballet technique for the legs
我也思考了很多现代舞当中的元素
was astonishing, and I thought many things in the modern dance
这些元素在呈现躯体时非常出色。
were remarkable for the torso.
所以我试着想办法把它们结合起来，
And so I tried to find ways to combine those
让身体变得灵活而柔顺
to make a body which was flexible and pliant
并允许尽可能多的运动的可能性。
and allowed for as many movement possibilities as I could see.
练习对于舞者来说有一种危险的吸引力，
Dance exercises over dancers an insidious attraction
他们每天要工作几个小时
that makes them work hours daily
只是为了完善一个
at perfecting an instrument
从出生就开始恶化的乐器。
which is really deteriorating from birth.
为什么要进行这种永恒的日常斗争？
To what end this eternal daily struggle?
因为这一切之中有一种狂喜。
Because inside of all that is an ecstasy.
简而言之，舞者并不能每一次都感受到释放，
Brief perhaps, not always released,
但当这一刻来临的时候，就像达到了某种平衡
but when it is, like a moment in balance
伟大与渺小会在这一刻互相重合
when all things great and small coincide.
而这一刻可能在任何时候发生
This can happen at any moment,
对一个舞者来说，当这一刻真正来临时，
and when it does for a dancer,
他会发出不自觉的微笑。
he can smile without knowing it.
我不能保证这一点，但它确实存在
There is no guarantee of this, but it does exist.
我们见过它，我们知道它。
We see it, and we know it.
就我自己而言，我不认为纪律是一种规则
Myself, I don’t think of discipline as, like, rules.
我认为纪律是一种私人的东西，
I think of discipline as being something private,
比如，对于舞者来说，
which, in the case of a dancer,
他会意识到纪律，
he realizes that the discipline,
举个例子说，练习作为纪律其实是他生活的一部分。
say, of going to class, is part of his life.
他通过自主达到了自律。
He arrives at this point within himself.
我认为，纪律更像是一种冥想或者虔敬，
It’s more like meditation, devotion, I think,
而不是其他别的东西
than anything else.
我去华盛顿西雅图的学校的时候，
I went to school in Seattle, Washington,
约翰·凯奇正好在那儿，
and Mr. Cage was there,
他给我们上了一堂作曲课。
and he taught us a composition class.
那堂课太棒了，我永远不会忘记。
And it was so remarkable, I never forgot this.
第二年，我去了纽约，
The next year, I went to New York,
凯奇先生最终加入了我们。
and Mr. Cage joined eventually.
所以从那以后他就一直在为我写音乐。
So he’s been writing music for me ever since.
人们经常认为
People have, um, often defended art
艺术的存在是因为
on the grounds that life was a mess,
生活已经一团糟了
and that, therefore, we needed art
艺术能够帮助人们逃离生活
in order to escape from life.
但是我想要一种，呃，令人眼花缭乱的，
I would like to have an art that was so, uh, bewildering,
复杂，而且，呃，不合逻辑的艺术，
complex, and, uh, illogical that we would return
这种艺术让我们最终能够愉悦地回归到日常生活中，
to everyday life with, uh, great pleasure.
没有沉默这回事。
There is no such thing as silence.
即使我无话可说时，
I have nothing to say,
我也在言说。
and I am saying it.
这就是我需要的诗歌♥。
And that is poetry as I need it.
我第一次见到默斯·坎宁安时，
First time I met Merce Cunningham,
他正和约翰·凯奇一起在美国巡回演出
he was touring the States with John Cage.
我从没见过这样的动作，从一个安静的中心开始，
I’d never seen anyone move like that, from such a quiet center,
带着如此兽♥性♥的霸道和人类的热情。
with such animal authority and human passion.
洛特曼曾经是康宁汉的医生
Merce Cunningham’s doctor used to be Dr. Lotman.
洛特曼给康宁汉开了
Dr. Lotman’s the one who prescribed
维生素药丸和早餐粉。
Merce’s vitamin pills and breakfast powders.
他告诉默斯能坐着就别站着，
He told Merce to sit when he didn’t have to stand,
能躺着就别坐着，
to lie down when he didn’t have to sit,
并且只要能睡觉就去睡觉。
and to sleep whenever he could sleep.
但是康宁汉有着积极主动的性格，
Possessed of an active disposition,
即使他坐着的时候也在忙碌
Cunningham keeps busy even when he’s sitting.
他用钢笔或铅笔制♥作♥计划表，
With pen or pencil he makes calendars,
规划表演或其他预约的日程
circling the days involving performances
一直忙个不停
or other engagements.
一个计划表完成，他开始另一个。
One calendar finished, he starts another.
多年来，他都在早餐桌旁自学俄语。
For years, sitting at the breakfast table, he taught himself Russian.
这使他能够在莫斯科大剧院芭蕾舞团演出前
This enabled him to speak in their language to members
用俄语与当地的成员交流
of the Bolshoi Ballet before performing
让他的团队参与工作
with his company for them.
学会了编织后，他开始
Having learned to knit, he knitted
亲手制♥作♥他在“Lavish Escapade”中穿的彩色服装。
the many-colored costume he wears in “Lavish Escapade.”
几年前，我决定要制♥作♥
I simply decided years ago that I would make
一支独♥立♥于音乐的舞蹈。
a dance free of the music.
我们会在最后把音乐和舞蹈放在一起。
And then we would put the sound and the dance together.
那么，实际上，你在此之前从未听过他的音乐，
Then, actually, you have never heard his music,
他看过你的舞蹈吗？ – 不。
and has he seen your dance? – No.
直到在当晚的演出，
And the night of the performance,
你才会把他的音乐和你的舞蹈结合起来？
you will combine the two?
如果我够好运的话，是的
With any luck.
那么，你收获的反应是怎么样的？
What, then, reactions have you had to that?
有的观众惊呆了，呃……
Well, all the way from absolute stupefaction
此外，还有另一些观众
on the part of an audience to, uh…
他们非常喜欢
to people liking it very much.
当我和用不其他方法进行训练的舞者合作时，
When I began to work with dancers who were trained in other techniques,
我感到有些不适应
it didn’t function for me.
所以我想如果我能自己教学…
So I decided that maybe if I could teach…
在我上的第一堂课，
I must say the first class I gave,
有一个人出现了，
There was one person who showed up,
一个了不起的家伙，玛丽安·普雷格-西蒙，
a wonderful Marianne Preger-Simon,
他说，“是你上课吗？”
who said, “Well, will you give the class?”
我说是的，然后我开始了。
And I said yes. So I began.
我一直觉得，当我和他一起工作的时候，
I’ve always felt, during the time when I worked with him,
尽管他会提供我们要做的所有动作，
although he was giving out all of the activity that we did,
你依然有很大的空间可以自♥由♥发挥。
there was a great space for you to do it yourself.
我认为默斯对我们作为舞者所具有的缺陷很感兴趣。
I think that Merce was interested in what could be considered our flaws as dancers.
他对于要不要纠正我们常常会犹豫，