第四公民

Oh, sorry, I, my name is Edward Snowden, I go by Ed
全名是爱德华·约瑟夫·斯♥诺♥登
Uh, Edward Joseph Snowden is my full name
斯-诺-登
S-N-O-W-D-E-N
你来自哪里
Un, where do you from?
我出生在南卡罗来纳州
I’m, originally I was born in North Carolina
一个叫伊丽莎白市的小镇
a small town, Elizabeth City
那里有海岸防卫站
There is a Coast guard station there
我来自一个军人家庭
I’m from a military family
但是我是在马里兰州长大的
But I spend most of my time growing up around, for me, in Maryland
这件事对你的家人有什么后果
And your family, what’s the consequence for them
让我做出这个决定最困难的就是他们
This, this actually is what has made it the hardest
我的家人不知道发生了什么
My family doesn’t know what’s happening
他们完全不知情
they, they’re not aware
可能这件事后跟他们
I don’t think I’ll be able to keep the family ties
就没办法保持家庭联♥系♥了
that I’ve had for all my life
因为和他们联♥系♥有风险
uh, because of the risk of associating them with this
什么文件该公布 什么不该公布
And I’ll, I’ll leave, you know, what to publish on this
都由你们来决定
what not to publish to you guys
我相信你们会负起这个责任
I trust you’ll be responsible on this
如果我靠我的家人太近
But basically the closer I stay to my family
他们越有可能被牵连
the more likely they are to be leaned on, you know
所以你不想让我们把他们卷进来
So you don’t want me to put them into this?
我们不会…
I mean we don’t…
我们会尽一切全力
Yeah, we definitely want to do whatever we can
不把他们牵扯进来
not to include them or bring them into the mix
我不会的
I-I-I, I won’t
不好意思
I’m sorry
我们可以这把这个停一下
Can we just stop for a second
先看看文件再回来讨论这个吗
do the document and then we go back to that?
我现在是需要你的邮箱地址还是…
What do I need is email address that you were using or
你可以发送加密的文件
Well, so you can send, what you encrypted
或者其他你觉得合适的东西
you can send for whatever you think is appropriate
主要就是把要发送的东西加密
The main thing is that you have to capsulate all of this
这样在发送的过程中
in a way that it can’t be decrypted or read
就不会被别人拦截解密
when it’s in-transit across the network
好的
right
这样在发送接收两端也不会被解开
Or on either of the end point
这些文件在接下来的48或72小时内
Ok, I mean just these documents are basically all gonna be public like
都会被公开
you know, in 48 hours or 72 houses, whatever
你只用
Yeah, this is, this is simply you know you want to
开始做就行了
get into the process doing this for everything
看起来很难 做起来很简单
because it seems hard, but it’s not hard
好的
Ok
真的超级简单
This is super easy
你再解释一遍给我听然后…
So, just walk me through it and…
先点到那些文件的目录
Ok, show me the actual folder structure where these files are first
那里有多少文件
How many documents are just sitting there?
7份
如果你想要我也可以给你一份
I can give you if you want
好
Ok
我们手上有多少文件
How many documents are we talking about?
像维基解密
Because let me get into Wikileaks
技术人员创立这样一个系统
technical people set up a system so that
别人都可以看到
It will be available for anybody to see
我想是不是我们也可以这样做
and I just wonder if it’s possible to do the same thing
这是最理想的结果
That, that would be the ideal end game
有些文件的保密虽然是合法的
But because, uh, because some of these documents are legitimately classified
但这种保密会对民众和行事方式造成危害
in ways it could cause harm to people and methods
我觉得我的技术能力还是可以保护好这些文件的
And I’m comfortable in my technical ability to protect them
你可以拿枪打我 折磨我
I mean you can literally shoot me or torture me
但是我不会告诉你密♥码♥
and I could not disclose the password if I wanted to
我有能力做到这些
Uh, you know, I have this sophistication to do that
有些记者也可以做到
There are some journalists that I think could do that
但有一些就不行
but there are a number of them that couldn’t
现在问题是一个组织是否也能够
But the question becomes can an organization actually
用这种方式保护这些信息
control that information in that manner
不让它被公开
without risking basically uncontrol this closure
但是我还是同意这个想法的
But I do agree with that
实话说 我不想由我来决定
Honestly, I don’t want to be the person making decisions
哪些能公布 哪些不能
on what should be public or what shouldn’t
所以比起让我自己做决定
which is why rather than publishing these on my own
或者直接全部公开
or putting them out openly
我把这些文件交给你们记者
I’m running them through journalists
我是有自己的偏见的
So my bias, you know is my thing
这样就可以
Because clearly I have some strongly held views
消除我个人观点的影响
are moved from that equation
用最负责的方式
The public interest is being represented
代表公众的利益
in a most responsible manner
对
Yeah
比方说一些 你对英国非常熟悉
Actually given, given your sort of, you know, geographic familiarity with UK
我想说英国政♥府♥通信总部的网络拦截计划
I’d like to point out that GCHQ has uh, probably
可能是世界上最具有入侵性的
the most invasive network intercept program anywhere in the world
嗯
Yeah, yeah
这个计划名叫Tempora
It’s called Tempora, T-E-M-P-O-R-A
他们叫它世界上第一个信息全揽
And it’s the world’s first full-take, they call it
意思是对一切事物 除了元数据之外的内容记录
that means content in addition to metadata on everything
我想做个时间安排
Uh, so, this is what I’d like to do just in terms of scheduling
看看大家是不是都同意
If it’s good with everybody else
-你的问题结束了吗 -我好了
-Are you, you’re feeling you’re done? -I’m, I’m done
我想再有时间多聊聊
So, I’m interested go back to get some coze time
有很多文件
And there’s a bunch of documents
跟第一篇报道的内容无关
that aren’t about this first reference story
我想再多问问你
that I’d like to spend some time with you
好的
Sure
我想对文件仔细地了解一遍
You know, kind of going it over
哦 我想留在这里
Oh, I’m not going anywhere
你觉得你有空吗
Do you feel like you’re available
你想看看你的日程计划吗
You want to check about it first?
那我看看我有没有空
Let me check my schedule
劳拉你有空吗 你想…
It that good for you? You wanna…
-我可以 -那好
-it’s great -OK
你好
Hello
什么事
Yes?
我吃得很好 非常感谢
My meal was great, thank you very much
我还有一些剩
uh, no, I still have some left there
我会迟点吃
I think I’m gonna be eating it later
你不用管我
so you can just leave me alone for now
好的 好的 谢谢你
Ok, great, thank you so much
用餐愉快 再见
Have a good one, bye
很快弄好
Fix that real quick
这个电♥话♥我一直很担心
So, now the phone thing I was always worried about
这些网络电♥话♥
These, all these new VoIP phones
他们都有内置的微型电脑
they have little computers in them
就算听筒坏了
And you can hot mike these over the network all the time
你也可以通过网络进行对话
even when their receiver’s down
只要电♥话♥线插着就可以窃听
As long as it’s plug in, I can be listening on you
嗯
Ok
我以前都没想到 但是
I haven’t even considered that earlier, but yeah
反正还是有很多方法…
There are so many ways…
现在这里的事情
This could be, everything in here
以后可能都要公布的
is pretty much gonna be a public record at some point
我们应该考虑到这点
We should operate on that
对 对
Yeah, yeah
你电脑带了吗
Basically, so do you have your, your machine?
带了 带了
I do I do
拿出来吧
Pop that out
关于报道这个泄密文件的事
Do you have an understanding of your commitment
你们都知道要干什么了吗
when you guys are going to press with the first stories?
明天早上7点30去伦敦
Uh, It’s about 7:30 in the morning in London
好的
Un-ha, Ok
让我看一下
Let’s see here