BBC.地平线.2022.认识癌症（2022）

and biopsies, and all of the concerns around those?
是的 没错 这些人
Yeah, that’s exactly right. So, these are people
要是从没做过检测
that would never have come to the attention of a doctor
-绝不会被医生留意到 -所以你是说
– had they not had the tests done. – So, what you’re saying,
对这群女性来说 整体是有利的
it’s good for this group of women overall,
但是 抱歉 你是其中不太走运的一位
but, sorry, you’re the unlucky one,
你也不太走运 你也是
and you’re the unlucky one, and so are you.
但问题在于 这些女人永远都不会知道
But the problem is that those women will never know
她们曾这么不幸过
that they’ve been unlucky.
这点很重要 原因在于
And this is the really big problem because the temptation is,
每一位被发现有疾病的女性
for every single woman who’s been detected as having a problem,
都会认为她及早发现了问题
to think that she has been diagnosed early
她的生活也因此会变得更好
and that her life has been made better because of that.
但其实你不知道是不是这样 你不知道
But you just don’t know that, you don’t know which
你是不是这些女性中的一员
of those women that you are.
你可能是因为筛查获益的女性
Whether you’re the woman that actually did get a benefit,
你也可能是大部分女性中的一员
or whether you’re the majority of women that actually
并没有从治疗中受益
didn’t get benefit from treatment.
你认为两百名女性中有三名
Do you think it is a big problem that you have
被过度治疗 是否是一个大问题
those three women in 200 being overtreated?
我认为自己没有权力去评判这件事
Well, I suppose I wouldn’t be the person to judge that.
这部分女性中的每位个体才有权力去评判
It would be those individual women to judge that.
所以 如果你做了乳腺癌筛查
So, if you have breast cancer screening,
我觉得你应该自己做决定 你可能认为
I think you should decide for yourself whether you think
值得冒险 也可能会觉得不值
that that risk is worth it or not worth it.
你自己是否愿意承担这种风险
You know, are you happy with that risk yourself?
癌症筛查每年拯救了数千条生命
Cancer screening saves thousands of lives every year,
但有一点必须承认 这一切都有代价
but it’s important to acknowledge that this is not without cost.
感觉真的非常不同
There’s like this fundamental disconnect, really,
数字表示的是一回事
between what the numbers say
当自己真的成为其中一个数字又是另一回事
and what it actually feels like when you’re the number.
因为 你当然可以看着这些数据 然后说
Because, of course, you can look at all those statistics and say,
“真糟糕
“Oh, that is pretty terrible
“这些人做的手术改变了他们的一生
“That people are having these life-changing surgeries
“但其实他们没必要做手术
“That they don’t need,
他们本不需要经历这些”
that they never had to go through.”
但之后 同时
But then, at the same time,
确诊癌症之后
having been diagnosed with cancer,
我知道 在那时
I know in that moment…
我只想摆脱这一切
..I just wanted to get rid of it.
我只想摆脱这一切
I just wanted to get rid of it.
数字怎么说一点都不重要
It wouldn’t really have mattered what the numbers said.
哪种选择都不简单
There are no easy choices in any of this.
拒绝治疗对我来说不是好选择
Turning down treatment wasn’t right for me,
但这并不适用于所有人
but that’s not the case for everyone.
我现在正在离开
I’m leaving…
圣詹姆斯医院
..St James’s.
三场手术
Three surgeries,
五十次放疗
50 sessions of radiotherapy,
六轮化疗
six rounds of chemotherapy.
我刚跟他们说 不想再做治疗了
And I’ve just told them no more treatment.
罗布是一名攀岩墙的检察员
Rob is a climbing wall inspector
他的儿子迦勒才四岁
and dad to four-year-old Caleb.
他得了一种软组织癌症 叫滑膜肉瘤
He has a cancer of the soft tissue called synovial sarcoma,
是晚期癌症
and it’s terminal.
我去了约克郡见他
I went to Yorkshire to meet him.
如果可以的话
If it’s OK,
我想问问当时你做的那个决定
I want to take you back to that decision that you made.
好的
Yeah.
跟我讲讲
Tell me a bit about
当时你思考的因素吧
what you were weighing up in your mind at that point in time.
两种不同的声音是什么
What were the two sides of that argument?
很简单 是选择生活质量还是生命长度
It was quite simply quality or quantity.
我想 如果我接受治疗
I thought, if I had treatment,
那我将会在医院里度过很多时间
that I would be spending a lot of time in hospital,
这样的生命质量不会高
and I did… That isn’t going to be a very good quality of life.
我可以选择接受治疗
I could have had the treatment,
或许能让我多活四五个月
and it could have, say, given me an extra four or five months.
我也可以选择治疗
I could have had the treatment,
但在疗程中或者疗程之后去世
and I could have passed away during treatment or just after.
说实话 试着去计算
And trying to calculate,
把这个决定想明白非常困难
work out that decision was really, really difficult, to be honest.
但从反面来说 可以非常简单地想
But, then, very easy on the flip side of it of thinking,
如果我想开车带着迦勒去苏格兰
“If I want to go to Scotland in my van with Caleb,
如果这是我的遗愿
“If that’s something I want to do before I pass away,
接受治疗并不是一个办法
“Going through treatment isn’t going to get me there.”
迦勒 这里是格伦科峡谷
Well, Caleb, this is Glencoe.
只有二十四个小时
It was only 24 hours,
但我带他去了苏格兰
but I got him to Scotland,
开车八个小时
eight hour drive up there,
但我们还去了洛蒙德湖
but we also went to Loch Lomond,
在湖里划船
so we had a paddle around Loch Lomond as well.
那二十四个小时里我们干了很多事情
So, we did lots of things in that 24 hours.
有些人会说
Some people might say
在你这种阶段选择不接受治疗
that choosing not to have treatment
有点像在放弃
at the stage you were at was a bit like giving up.
我不认为是放弃
I don’t see it as giving up.
说实话 我认为这是接受不可避免的现实
I see it is accepting the inevitable, to be honest.
我知道我的病情在恶化 身体在变化
I know I’m deteriorating, I know things are changing,
但只要我能在这里骑行 我就满足了
but as long as I can come here, ride my bike, I will do.
我在这里有很多回忆
I’ve made a lot of memories here,
这是我躺在医院的病床上
and that’s definitely not what I would have got
无法完成的事情
had I been in a hospital bed.
这是给迦勒的回忆盒子
So, this, um, is just a memory box for Caleb.
里面有很多东西 这些涂色的石头
It’s got lots of things, all the rocks from different walks
都是我们一起去徒步收集的
we’ve been on and painted. Together.
我觉得这很感人
I think that’s just so sweet,
准备这样的东西给他
having stuff like this ready for him.
当然还有信
And then, of course, letters which…
这些是在2019年写的
These were written in 2019
当时我在接受治疗
when I was going through treatment.
一封是给他十八岁生日的 还有一封二十一岁
So, there’s, like, one for his 18th birthday and 21st,
你的二十一岁生日
婚礼日 全都是纪念日 买♥♥第一辆车
wedding day, all these kinds of stuff. Er, first car.
当你发现你是同性恋
When you realise you’re gay,
这封信很重要
that’s an important one.
-这谁能预料呢 -没错
– You never know! – Exactly.
和妈妈第一次吵架
So, first fight with your mum.
第一天上学
First day at school –
这封可以扔掉了 太好了
that one can go in the bin, yes!
你活到这天了
You made it.
你第一天上学
我做到了 是个里程碑
I made it, milestone.
有些信几乎已经要过期了
– And how does it feel to have
你是什么感觉
already, some of them out of date, almost? – Well, that’s…
没错 我的生命已经超出了很多预期
Yes, I’ve surpassed many of the estimations
因为到头来它们只是预期 不是吗
because that’s what it is at the end of the day, isn’t it?
它们只是预计的数字
They’re only estimates.
我觉得准备这样的东西
It takes, I think, quite a lot of strength
需要很坚强
to put something like this together.
-是的 -准备它也有帮到你吗 -当然
– Yeah. – Has it helped you too? – Oh, definitely.
写信让我觉得
I think writing the letters made it feel like I was,
我开始接受现实了 说实话
like it was the start of the acceptance, to be honest,
接受我得了癌症这件事
of that this is what’s happening.
在我的葬礼上读
-所以现在是什么 -其实就是等待
– So, what happens now? – Wait, really.
继续吃药
Keep taking my meds,
继续骑车
keep riding my bike.
其实就是继续生活
Go on living, really.
没有别的能做的了
There’s nothing else you can do.
他做的事情里蕴含了极大的能量
There’s this incredible amount of strength in what he’s doing,
我认为罗伯
and I think Rob is someone who is just