国家美术馆（2014）

我认为 美术馆其实就哈利·波特
I think the gallery did probably make the right decision
做了对的决定
about Harry Potter.
那很不令人满意啊
It was most unsatisfactory.
但 事实上 没有任何一个我们讨论的保障
But, in fact, none of the sort of guarantees we were talking about,
嗯
erm,
事实上
actually,
可以长时间有效实施的
could be effectively implemented at the time.
我们谈论的 是一种广♥告♥方式
We’re talking about a certain type of advertising.
当你在电视上看足球赛的时候
And when you see a football match on television
你会看到那些极大的指示牌
and you see these huge signs –
都是关于跑鞋之类的
they’re all about, you know, running shoes and things.
那是有关联的广♥告♥
I mean, there’s some sort of a relationship.
他们不是戈雅 或毕加索
They’re not about Goya and… Picasso, even.
所以 在我看来
So, it seems to me the more disparity that there is
不同观众之间越多的不一致
between the different types of public which we,
或者
for one thing or another…
它会看起来更真实 就像一个人缺现金一样
the more it actually looks as if one is just short of cash.
换一种说法 或者急切的宣传需求
I mean, in other words… Or is in desperate need of publicity.
我不知道
I mean, I just don’t know.
我不能看到这会变得多严肃
I just don’t see how it’s seriously going to…
国家美术馆的名字确实会被再三提及
The name National Gallery can be announced a lot,
但这样对我们又有什么益处呢
but what, in this context, would that do for us?
它能向公众说明
What does that tell people
国家美术馆到底是个什么样的组织吗
about what the National Gallery really is?
其次 你最终都会陷入无尽的谈判之中
Secondly, you’ve got to continue with these negotiations, anyway.
这是美术馆中最精彩的作品之一
One of the highlights of the gallery,
是许多游客慕名前来观看的一幅画
a painting that many people come along and see…
故事发生在1533年的某天 这两个男人 就像画中表现的那样 见面了
At some point in 1533, these two men, meeting as they did,
跟我们在异乡遇到同胞时一样
did what we might do were we to meet a fellow countrymen
他们拍照留念了
in a foreign place – they had their picture taken.
很明显 那时还不能把相机递给路人或者侍者来拍照
Clearly, there’s no handing a camera to a passer-by or a waiter.
在摄像技术发明之前
The only way, until the advent of photography,
唯一获得一张图像的办法
to have an image,
就是由画者将你画下来
is to have a painter paint you.
他们很富有
They had money, they were wealthy,
因此可以请当时英国最优秀的画者
they could pay for the best painter living in England
为他们作画
to capture their image,
在1533年 伦敦最顶尖的画家
and the top painter living and working in London in 1533
是一位德国画家
was the German painter
名叫汉斯·荷尔拜因
Hans Holbein.
因此 那年的某时
And, at some point, the three men –
汉斯·荷尔拜因 让·德·丁特维尔和乔治·德·赛尔维三人
Hans Holbein, Jean de Dinteville, Georges de Selve –
聚在了一起 讨论这副作品
would have got together and discussed this composition.
这两人是对画者发号♥施令的人
They’re the ones telling the painter what to do.
很有可能 让·德·丁特维尔的发言权更大
Probably, Jean de Dinteville having the greater say,
因为这幅画最后归他所有
because it was his painting –
他付的钱 最后这幅画也是收藏在他波利西的别♥墅♥里
he paid, it went back to his chateau in Polisy,
有可能荷尔拜因自己也不知道
and it could well be that Hans Holbein had no idea
在这副他受命创作的画中
of the whole significance
各个元素都代表了什么意思
of everything he was being asked to make.
我有一个同事认为
I have a colleague who thinks
所有这一切都是关于一起真实发生的谋杀案
this is all about a murder that took place.
但我看到这幅画的时候不禁想问 在哪儿呢 哪有啊
And I look at it, and I say but, “Where? What?”
他说 我才不会告诉你
And he says, “I’m not telling you,
不然你就会偷走我的点子然后发表它”
you’ll steal my idea and publish it.”
所以谁也不知道那到底是什么
So, none of us knows what it is,
但接下来我们会把我们知道的告诉大家
but all we have is what we can go on.
这里出现了一把鲁特琴的琴盒
And there is the lute case, the box –
空的琴盒 可能会让我们想到棺材
the empty box, which perhaps reminds us of the coffin,
想到死亡
of death,
这里这个扭曲的骷髅
which is also alluded to here
也同样暗示了这一点
by this distorted skull.
这其实是个扭曲畸形的象征
It’s an example of anamorphosis.
从你们所在的位置 正对着它看
You look at it full-on, from where you are –
是看不出什么的
it’s unreadable.
但是从你所在的位置
But from where YOU are,
就能看出来这是个骷髅
it reads as a skull.
我们不知道这到底是谁的主意
And we don’t know whose idea it was.
荷尔拜因是不是说
Did Holbein say,
尊敬的阁下 我们为什么不画个扭曲的骷髅在上面”
“Your Excellencies, why not have an anamorphic skull?
你看 我在这儿画了一个
“See, I have made one here.”
然后他们想 不错啊
And they thought, “Oh, that’s good!
这要是挂在我波利西的别♥墅♥里 肯定很不错
“That’ll look really good back in the chateau at Polisy.”
又或者是 这两个人对此有所耳闻
Or, had one of these two men heard about it and said,
提议说 荷尔拜因大♥师♥ 您能把我们两个塑造得更狡黠机智一些吗
“Master Holbein, can you fashion for us a cunning perspective?”
我们并不知道
We don’t know.
但是你们肯定都知道
But all of you know,
在一幅肖像画中
that to put a skull,
画入代表死亡的骷髅
which is a symbol of death
是一件奇怪 不同寻常的事
into a portrait, is a strange and unusual thing, perhaps.
嗯 有些符号♥ 有些事物是有多重含义的
Erm…certain symbols, certain objects are multivalent.
可能有各种各样的象征意义
They carry manifold symbols.
但骷髅不是 骷髅永远都只象征着一件事
But not the skull – the skull is always, is it not,
那就是死亡
a symbol of death.
所有 有可能 这里的解读是
So, perhaps, the reading of this might be
死亡是一个永恒的话题
that death is ever present.
也许藏在某处 但是永远存在
Hiding…but ever present.
你永远不知道什么时候它什么时候会降临
You never know when it might occur.
事实上 他还完全很年轻呢
And, in fact, he didn’t make old bones, at all.
但是也有可能 这幅画之所以隐藏这样的信息
But, perhaps, carried within this was a message
是为了向别人展示这幅画的时候
which Jean de Dinteville could talk about
让·德·丁特维尔可以有话可谈
when he showed anyone this painting in his house at Polisy.
也许这条信息就是类似
Maybe the message was something like this –
不论多么富有 年轻
No matter how rich, young…
让·德·丁特维尔当时29岁 而乔治·德·赛尔维当时25岁
He was 29, or in his 29th year. He in his 25th.
英俊非凡 情系且心忧天下
..Handsome, interested in and worried about the world you are,
可到最后 都会败在冷酷的 无法战胜的死亡面前
in the end, it all comes down to the grim invincible,
这世上唯一值得重视的就只有一个 那就是救赎
and the only thing to be considered in this world is salvation,
左上角几乎被盖住的十字架代表了救赎
represented by the almost hidden crucifix top left.
这就是艺术的魅力所在
It’s the brilliant thing about art.
它包罗万象
It encompasses everything.
这不仅仅只是线条和色块 这是生活
It’s not just about either drawing or painting – it’s about life.
是音乐
It’s about music.
是电影
It’s about film.
是哲学
It’s about philosophy.
是数学
It’s about mathematics.
是科学
It’s about science.
是文学
It’s about literature.
你热衷的一切
Anything you are interested in…
都归结于艺术
..Goes into art.
这也是我为什么成为一名艺术家的原因
And that’s why I became an artist.
这也是它令我着迷之处
And that’s what fascinates me.
不论你喜欢的是什么
It doesn’t matter what you’re interested in,
艺术都能将它包含其中
it can all feed in.
我还想跟大家说的一点是
And I want to also talk about how we can use
我们可以怎样利用馆藏的这些画作
these paintings in the collection,
因为对你们可能会想 等等
because it might seem to you – “Hang on a minute, we are
我们在看十七世纪
“Looking at 17th century,
十六世纪
“16th century,
十九世纪的作品
“19th century…
在二十一世纪的今天
“What on earth use is that for us today,
这些对我们到底有什么用
“In the 21st century?”
我不画画
Now, I don’t make paintings –
我会制图
I do a lot of drawing –
我是做装置艺术的
but I make installations.
我利用一间房♥间
So I make things that take
在其中设计人们可以与之互动的装置
over a room that people can interact with,
这里的这些画作
and yet these paintings
给了我很多灵感
here give me a huge amount of inspiration,
我几乎每天都来这里
and I come in here almost every day.