国家美术馆（2014）

不仅仅只是通过它的材料来推测
beyond just looking at the material itself.
这里非常苍白的部分绝对是
This rather pale thing is absolutely…
她手臂投下的 一大块阴影
It’s a strong shadow cast from her arm.
你看 它往上走到桌子的边缘 然后出现了一个锐角 了吗
You see the way goes up the side of the table and makes a sharp angle?
这是手臂投影所造成的 所以
It’s the cast out of the arm falling, and so,
显然 应该要比这个更暗
obviously that must be a darker value than this.
这就是我刚刚在楼下说的关键所在了
See, that gets to the core of what I was saying downstairs,
当色彩变化具有局限性时
about when the pigment change is so localised
我们会很难理解这东西到底是什么
that it’s really quite disruptive to understanding what the thing is.
这就造成了一个不同程度的争论 作为一个修复者
That is a different kind of argument about what you might do
你要怎么做来改正它呢
as a restorer to correct that,
或至少的减少错误影响
or at least to reduce the effects of problematic effects.
这其中最根本的一个问题
One of the most fundamental issues –
我不能说是质疑 不过这确实是一个众所周知的
well, I wouldn’t say problematic, but certainly an open question,
这幅画所牵涉到的问题
where this picture is concerned –
那就是这个空间的基本构造
and that has to do with the basic construction of the space.
墙在哪里 这是窗户吗 还是说这是画中画
Where the wall is – is that a window? Is it a picture of a picture?
所有的这类问题
All those kinds of issues.
总之 尽管底色的证据
Anyway, the evidence provided by the ground
还有这些阴影表明了桌子是贴在墙边的
and the shadows suggest that this table is right up against the wall.
你们能看见这里有块用黑色颜料涂的阴影
You have a painted shadow here in black paint,
是鱼头靠在墙上的阴影
of the fish’s head against the wall,
这告诉了你桌子和墙很近 而那里的那块阴影
which tells you that it’s quite close and the fact that that’s cast there
我认为补上那东西所在的部分
I think is also pretty important
也是很重要的
in fixing where that thing sits in space.
同样的 这里底色的这种颜色
Again, this kind of ground colour here –
以及和一点白色混在一起 的阴影部分
and then mixed with a bit of white and applied shadow…
这些都开始容易理解了
It all starts to make sense.
这里还需要一点点修整
This has still got quite a bit of retouching that needs to be done.
你可以看到这些笔触在这里 有一部分
Then you can see the brush wipings here that are partially covered
被委拉斯凯兹用底色盖住了
in ground-coloured paint by Velazquez –
然后因为过去的清理又重新露了出来
and have been exposed by old cleanings.
所以这里有基础的底色 深一点的阴影
And you have the basic ground colour, the darker shadow
靠近桌子的阴影应该还会更深一点
and what would have probably been an even darker one leading to the table.
如果你是开始代替这种颜色 这一切就说得通了
It all starts to make sense if you start to substitute this colour.
我认为
And I think…
我希望你们能认同 这是理解
I hope you might agree that this then is pretty fundamental
这幅画发生了什么的根本之处
to understanding what’s going on.
同理 在这位老妇人的下巴这块地方
Similarly, this area of the old woman’s chin –
有点突出 用了立体主义的手法
it sort of comes forward now in a sort of Cubist way.
同样 是因为底色的变白 要不然它会更深一点
And that’s again because of blanched ground. It should be much darker.
你们一旦看到这种情况 用更深的颜色来替代
So wherever you see this substitute a darker value,
这样 我认为 关于画中的元素如何被塑造
I think all kinds of things start falling into place about the way
和他们相互之间如何产生联♥系♥的问题 就会开始明朗
the elements are modelled and where they are in relation to one another.
而且像这样用了如此有限颜色 画出质朴的画
And it’s such a limited palette and such an austere kind of image,
我认为这些问题对于
I think these issues are really pretty fundamental
你们理解这幅画和作者的意图
to your reading and understanding of the picture
是至关重要的
and what he’s trying to do.
这就是为什么 我们要用一个有点不同角度
So, that’s why we might take a slightly different view
来进行对这幅画的修复
about how to approach its retouching.
为了修复这幅画 拉里现在所做的一切
Everything that Larry is now doing in terms of retouching
就是在画的顶层上漆 一旦画的清洁工作完成
is on top of a layer of varnish that, once it’s cleaned,
拉里便开始剥离这顶层的漆
it’s varnished and then Larry works on top of the varnish,
他为了修复这幅画的所有工作
so that all the work that he does –
没有上百个小时也有几十个小时
the tens if not hundreds of hours that goes into restoring a picture –
下一次清理这幅画的时候 这层漆就很容易剥离
the next time it’s cleaned, it comes right off.
现代保护画作的原则
The whole… The basic principle of modern conservation
就是我们所做的一切都是可逆的
is that anything we do should be reversible –
这样就让下一代人能容易的把画恢复原状
that the next generation can reverse it very easily.
我们几个月甚至几年的工作可以在十五分钟里被消除
Months or years of work is gone in 15 minutes.
不过这也没关系
But that’s OK.
这问题的核心就是你会怎么想
It gets to the core of how you feel about
这只是一份文件 或一件考古的东西
whether this is a document or a kind of archaeological thing,
还是你想要修复一幅被你欣赏的画作
or whether you want to restore it as an image you read –
另外你对你正在做的事情有多大的信心
and how confident you are in what you’re doing.
这不仅是由于我和道森挠挠脑袋
It’s not just because Dawson and I scratch our heads
想着 如果这样或者那样做是不是很美
and think, “Wouldn’t it be lovely if that was this or that?”
还是基于我们对画材的了解
It’s based on an understanding of the material,
从史料中找到的依据以及不同画作和证据的比对
historical sources and comparative images and evidence,
就像我在楼下展示的那幅委拉斯凯兹的画
as I showed you downstairs, of Velazquez himself,
他把颜色混合起来去搭配底色
mixing colours to match the ground that he used.
所以记住这一点也是很重要的
So it’s important to remember that, too.
所以我们做了这样的决定
There are really good reasons
是有很有说服力的理由支撑的
for the decisions we take in matters like this.
我只是想确保
I just want to also make sure
你们能理解拉里一直说的
that you understand what Larry’s been saying
有关他用底色来塑形 的事情
about him using the ground colour in modelling –
他放心使用着最初的底色
that it was the original ground colour that he trusted,
想着 那样搭配那些阴影正好
he thought, “Oh, that looks just right in that shadow…”
所以他没有盖住它
He doesn’t cover it.
而且不仅是委拉斯凯兹
And this isn’t just Velazquez –
好多画家都是用的底色来塑形
there are lots of painters who use ground colour in modelling,
有时用底色来当中间色
as a kind of mid-tone, sometimes.
比如 卡拉瓦乔这么干过 这不是什么不常见的
Caravaggio does it, for instance. It’s not at all uncommon.
这样的意图在于将这些作品作为被人欣赏的艺术品来修复
The intent is to restore the thing as a work of art that you read.
最后
At the end of the process,
我希望你们能看到 那面墙应该或多或少会有
that wall should more or less carry on cross-colouring from light to dark
某种程度上的从浅色到深色的交叉着色
in a way that I hope you’ll be able to see.
我不希望你们认为 我们坚信
I don’t want to leave the impression that we believe
我们的润色和修复使得它和原来一摸一样
that our retouchings and restorations make the picture look as it did.
我们只是想帮助大家理解这幅画
We’re just trying to help you understand what it is –
或者这幅画之前的样子
and maybe what it was.
这是一种平衡的艺术 是修缮不是更新
It’s a balancing act, but a restoration is not a renewal.
当然不是 这些画是真实的物品 使用有机材料制成
No. Of course, they’re physical objects, made of organic materials –
从它们被完成的那一秒开始 它们便开始变旧
and the second they’re finished, they start to age.
这就是自然规律
And that’s just that.
我们还没有探讨这幅画的意义
We haven’t really talked about the meaning of this.
它自然地触及了
It naturally invites…
关于宗教和当代生活之间关系
some consideration of the relationship of religion
的思考
to contemporary life.
在前景的两个女人
The two women in the foreground
很明显是当代生活中的人物
are clearly figures from contemporary life
那么人们不得不疑惑
and one has to wonder –
这两个女人在做什么
what’s this really about?
她们仅仅是在服侍别人吗
Are they simply serving people
菜肴将会通过窗口送进去
and the meal is going to go through the hatch
被送到另一个房♥间去呢
and be served in the other room?
或者 她们在某种程度上代表了现代的玛丽亚和马大吗
Or do they, in some way, represent a modern day Mary and Martha?
你记得这个故事吗
Do you remember the story?
基♥督♥拜访了玛丽亚和马大
Christ comes to visit Mary and Martha
玛丽亚小心地坐在了基♥督♥的脚上
and Mary sits attentively at Christ’s feet
听着他的教诲 同时马大正忙着给自己找事做
and listens to his teaching, while Martha makes herself very busy,
应付着各种家务 然后开始抱怨
going about all the chores and then comes to complain
玛丽亚不帮忙 丢下她一个人做所有的活
that she’s been left to do everything and Mary isn’t helping.
基♥督♥喝斥她说
And Christ chides her and says,
马大啊 马大啊 你牵心了这么多事情
Martha, Martha, you’re concerned about so many things,
但是玛丽亚的做法更智慧
but Mary’s really taken the better path
她让自己的心智得以发展
in allowing time for her spiritual development.
所以 我们不得不扪心自问
And so, we have to ask ourselves,
前景的这俩女人是不是披着现代外衣的玛丽亚和马大
is this Martha and Mary in the foreground in contemporary guise,
这个持呵斥姿势的老妇人说着 快点
with the old woman chiding with that gesture, saying “Hurry up”?
或者这可能是工人在准备着蒜蓉蛋黄酱
Or is it maybe the worker preparing the garlic mayonnaise,
忙着工作 然后那个更智慧的老妇人
so busy at work and the older, wiser woman
在提醒她给精神生活留出时间吗
reminding her to allow time for her spiritual life?
有一段很好的话
They’re the great words,
出自圣女大德兰
used often in relation to this painting,
经常和这幅画连在一起使用
from Teresa of Avila –
上帝会在厨盆前经过
“The Lord walks even among the kitchen pots,
在精神生活和现实生活中都助你一臂之力
“helping you in matters spiritual and material.”
我们要去二号♥修护室继续我们的谈话了
We have to go over to conservation studio number two.