国家美术馆（2014）

现在 我们将看到通过分段研究
Now, we will see from what will come out of the…
得来的结果
Study of the partition –
我已经弄好了这个分段研究报告的电子复印件
I have ordered a big electronic copy of the partition
并且把它发给了威廉姆·克里斯蒂 他相信
and we have sent it to William Christie, who believes –
而且我觉得所有专业人士相信 华托
and I think all the scholars – believe that, Watteau,
对音乐的展现非常到位 所以 它不仅是
represented very accurately every musical movement, so it’s not…
我们也咨♥询♥了许多音乐学家
Well, we’ve consulted a number of musicologists ourselves
现在一致认为这不是一段真实存在的乐谱
and the consensus now is that that is not a real piece of music.
好吧 -这不是一段真实存在的乐谱
OK.- It’s not a real piece of music.
也许是一个精力充沛的修复者
Probably an energetic restorer!
额 可能把 随便了
Well, yeah, whatever.
我是说 我没有对乐谱
I mean, I haven’t compared the music
和画上这一行一行的乐谱进行过比较
and the painting with the music in the print line by line…
我是要问 -这是我必须做的
I was going to ask…- ..it’s something I must do.
我被告知这不是吉他谱
But I’m told that it’s not a guitar piece,
因为你本应该看到许多和♥弦♥ 如果是吉他谱的话
because you would expect a number of chords.
这也不是曲谱
It’s not a singing piece,
因为这里没有歌♥词 除了这里看起来
because there are no words, other than what appear to be
像标题的残存
the remains of a title,
所以我们根本搞不清楚这到底是什么
so we can’t actually make out what that is.
这不可能理解 尽管我们看得已经够仔细了
It’s impossible to read and we’ve looked at that quite carefully.
所以 这既不是吉他谱又不是曲谱
So, if it’s not a guitar piece and it’s not a singing part…
那这到底是什么
I mean, what is it?
我们推测这可能是
We conclude that it might be…
唯一的可能是这是吉他音乐
The only possibility is that it is music for the guitar
她相当笨拙地这样拿着谱子
and that she is rather awkwardly holding it like this,
以方便他能看到他在弹的是什么
so he can actually see what he’s playing.
而事实上 并不清晰
But in fact, it’s not plain.
所以是另外的可能
So that was another…
所以他只是在和♥弦♥ 你这样认为
So he’s just chording his guitar, do you think?
调弦 对 -调弦 不好意思
Tuning, yeah.- Tuning, sorry.
或者他在弹奏 因为 -他可能
Or is he playing, because…- He could be…
我不知道 也许他是在 额 轻拨
I don’t know, he could be about to…tap it.
关于这些 现在那些音乐学家们
On these, there are some written documents now
已经有些定论了吗 -我收到些信件或电邮
from these different musicologists?- I’ve got letters or e-mails…
那可能是
That could be…
那被并入了我去年写的
That’s incorporated into a draft catalogue entry,
目录的草稿
which I wrote last year.
好的 我们能用这些信息是吗
OK. We could use this information?
当然能用
You could use this information.
因为这会很有趣 看看出这些音乐学家是谁
Because it would be interesting to see who are these musicologists
而比尔
and see with Bill…
他更是个音乐家而非音乐学家
who is more a musician than a musicologist.
我在柏林看到的画作
The drawings I saw in Berlin,
在那儿我们 和比尔一起 发现
there we discovered that with Bill,
我们知道的是音乐是在一个地方表演的
that we know which music is performed at a place
并且在乐器上的手的位置也很复杂
and it’s so complex in the positions on the instrument
他必须已经知道音乐了 因为那个要素也不是很清晰
that he must’ve known music, because that element was not clear.
在那些作品里 根本不可能看懂除非
In these drawings, it cannot be otherwise –
他懂得怎么演奏
he knows how to play.
看得懂乐谱 也同样重要
Knowing music – that’s also an element.
这一点值得称道
That’s an important thing to praise.
是的 这也是看懂柏林国立美术馆里
Yes, that’s also the element of the drawings in the Kupferstichkabinett,
阿特卡盆博格博士作品的要素
by Dr Altcappenberg in Berlin.
我上周在那儿看到的画作
The drawings I saw there last week and so,
通过比尔之前做的研究 现在可以知道
from the work that was done by Bill, he knows now that in the…
在不同的画作里 有一副是画流浪者
..in the different drawings, there’s one of a hobo,
还有一副是画赌徒
then another one of a gambler.
没有总谱 都只是画了他们的姿态
There’s no scores there, it’s only drawings of positions.
这些很有说服力 -而且它的复杂性
They’re convincing, yeah.- And also, the complexity of…
我们在那儿和一些音乐家
We were there with several musicians,
他们也来自柏林爱乐交响乐团
also from the Berlin Philharmonic,
他们看了之后也都确信
who came to see and everyone is convinced –
如果不懂音乐是不可能画出来的
you cannot draw if you don’t know music.
就好像我们说 在摄影里
It’s like we would say in…photography,
或电影里 就为了那一刻
it’s like in film, to make just that moment…
我觉得每个人都相信这是一个新音乐家
I think everybody accepts that that’s a new musician
他了解他的乐器
and he knew his musical instruments.
我是指这代表了一类型的
I mean, that represents the type of…
并不能确定这不是乐谱
It was not clear that it was not music –
素描里的是什么 我也不能确定
that’s not clear for me in the drawings.
不能确定他自己的确弹奏了音乐
It’s not clear that he actually plays the music himself,
这是完全不同的
which is a different thing.
不过这代表了一把
But that represents a guitar of a type
在1700年左右于巴黎生产的吉他
that was being made in Paris around 1700.
这是毋庸置疑的
You know, that’s pretty accurate.
他们说这里的黑色修补了好多次
You see, they say the black’s been strengthened a lot,
因为黑色是最容易溶解的涂料
because black’s the most soluble paint.
她有一些指甲脱落了
I mean, she’s missing a few fingernails,
这会使你们想 会不会有些音符也这样脱落了呢
which makes you wonder, did they also take off a few notes?
你们对它们进行理解时 要非常小心
And you’ve got to be very careful interpreting what it is now,
那些音符
those musical notes.
能看到 听到这个例子真是太好的 你是个令人惊喜的游客
It’s good to see, good to hear the case. You’re a surprise visitor.
不管发生什么 祝你的展览取得成功 -谢谢 -谢谢
And good luck with your exhibition, whatever happens.- Danke.- Thank you.
这间屋子很漂亮
This is a beautiful room.
我觉得这里的作品是美术馆里最漂亮的
Well, I think it’s the most beautiful room in the gallery.
嘿嘿 你要说什么 比尔 -看这里
Ha-ha, what are you going to say, Bill?- I mean, look at this…
那个抚摸 非常微妙的抚摸
That touch, very delicate…touch.
她简直不敢相信
She can’t believe…
因为她深爱着这个牧羊人 你知道吗
because she’s totally in love with this shepherd boy, you know?
她无法想象他是如此英俊
She just can’t believe how beautiful he is
所以她轻轻地触摸 以确信
and she’s got to touch him, to make sure…
他不是虚幻的
..That he’s real.
还有这条狗 也令人惊奇
And the dogs… That dog is amazing.
不论如何 我不能再留你了 -我很荣幸
Anyway… I mustn’t keep you.- Well, I’m glad.
能回来多看看
But it’s lovely to be back.
欢迎你经常来
Well, you must come and see us more often.
在十六世纪中叶
And in the middle of the 16th century,
发生了一个事件 我们现在叫反宗教改革
we have something called the Counter-Reformation
它发生在意大利
taking place in Italy,
是为了回应路德的挑战
in response to the challenge of Luther,
因为他挑战了天主教会
as he challenges the Catholic Church.
引起这个争端的一个导火索是
And one of the things that comes into question is
对图画价值的争议
the value of images.
图画是有危险性的吗 因为它们很容易被理解成
Are images dangerous because they are likely to be understood
上帝的复♥制♥品
as replicants of God,
或者圣经中上帝形象的复♥制♥品
or replicants of figures from the Bible?
抑或是它们是理解上帝的一种重要方式吗
Or are they important, as a way into understanding the word of God,
就像被写出来一样吗
as it was written?
这就是当时发生的争辩
So, this is a debate that is taking place
而在意大利发生的是 更多画作出现了
and what happens in Italy is, there is a proliferation of images.
换句话说 反宗教改革是为了创作更多的画作
In other words, the response is to make more images
并使其尽可能带有情感色彩
and to make them as emotional as possible,
使人能够感受到它
so that you feel a sense within yourself of what is happening.
它传达出的是一种手足之情
And the message is one of fraternal love.
这是人类的共通情感
It’s a universal message
这是我们所有人都能感受 联♥系♥到自身的
and it’s something that we can all relate to
其目的在于让你在欣赏完一副画之后
and the idea is that you go away from the experience of viewing
能从你身边的人那里感受到更多的爱
feeling more love towards your fellow man.
我想这里我需要指出的是你们已经
I guess all I’d like to point out here is that having seen that issue
在楼下看到漂白的底色的问题了
with the blanched ground downstairs
以及它是如何破坏那个空间的
and how that disrupted that space,
我觉得你们应该已经可以识别这幅画的问题了
I think you might have your eye on enough to start to recognise it here.
一个更戏剧性的例子是这里
The more dramatic examples are something like this,
你们可以看到一部分的桌子
where you’ve got part of the table.
同样 他并不是在修改什么
Again, this isn’t him correcting something,
但 他随后涂在底色上的颜料
but the actual paint he subsequently applied on top of the ground
非常接近本来该有的色彩
is very close and colour to what that would have been,
所以这并不是一大块污渍
so they didn’t intend a great blotchy space.
此外 我们也有越来越多的证据表明
And again, we have more and more empirical evidence about that,