国家美术馆（2014）

这幅画的出色设计 -是的
..beautiful style of this picture…- Yeah.
哇
Wow.
嗯
Mum.
嗯
Mum!
我们走
Let’s go.
艾希莉 我们走
Ashley, let’s go.
在这儿
Right here…
我们都知道 但我认为这值得我们去记住
We know but I think it’s worth our trying to remember
中时期是属于宗教的
that the Middle Ages were religious,
一种我们现如今无法真正持有的深刻的宗教信仰
profoundly religious in a way that we can’t really conceive nowadays.
我希望你现在能想象一下 如果你自己能
I want you now to imagine if you can
在这个模型教堂里面
that you are inside that church which you see as a model
并且是在这幅曾被摆在祭坛上的画里
and into which this altarpiece was once placed.
没有大窗户 当然也没有电灯
No big windows, obviously no electric light
只有一个像这样的非常狭小的窗口
but a space like this with very narrow windows.
光线会被过滤
The light would be filtering in.
你现在不是在国家美术馆 而是在那座教堂里
You’re not in the National Gallery, you’re inside that church –
昏暗的灯光 也许还有唱圣歌♥的声音
low light, maybe the sound of chanting,
或许有祷告者慢慢祷告的声音
maybe the sound of prayers being spoken slowly.
用来提升祷告者
The smell of incense used to carry up the prayers of the faithful
对神圣王国的忠诚度的熏香的香气
to the heavenly realm,
你现在想象一下
and if you will now just imagine
你透过微光闪烁的蜡烛
that you are looking at this painting by the light of candles,
看着这幅油画
candles which flicker,
烛光靠着金光闪耀
candles which would shine against the gold,
然后你可能会思考 因为你要知道 你不能读 不能写
and you might think… Cos remember you can’t read, you can’t write,
当时是1377年 你的房♥子在夏天热得要命
the year is 1377, your houses are too hot in summer,
在冬天又寒冷无比 死亡是哀悼生活的一部分
too cold in winter, death is part of the threnody of everyday life,
每时每刻都有人在死去
people are dying all the time,
你可能会想
you might think to yourself,
如果我足够好 也许我死后可以住在天国
“If I’m good, I can perhaps get up to the kingdom everlasting
那里的一切都是美好的 珍贵的
“where all is good, great and golden.”
我想另一件事也会发生
I think another thing might also happen –
就着这微光闪烁的蜡烛
by the flickering candlelight,
你也许会认为这些人物在移♥动♥
you might think that these figures were moving.
如果他们在移♥动♥ 那么他们就是真实存在的 他们能听到你的祷告
If they were moving, they were real and could hear your prayer
并为你向基♥督♥和在天国的圣母求情
and intercede for you with Christ and the Virgin in heaven.
这幅画将成为一条
The painting would be acting as a sacramental channel
由人间通往天堂的神圣之路
from earth to heaven,
从某种意义上说 这就是这幅画的作用
and in a sense, that’s how this painting worked.
我的意思不是让这提起来很粗鲁 或许我已经粗鲁了
I don’t mean to make this sound as crude perhaps as I am
但是如果你们花一点时间想象一下
but if you will for a moment just imagine
我从口袋里拿出
that I’ve brought from my pocket
一张可爱的毛茸茸的灰色小猫的图片
a picture of a sweet, grey, fluffy kitten
然后把它钉在这里 说
and I’ve pinned it here and I’ve said,
这是个飞镖 瞄准这只毛茸茸的灰色小猫的眼睛
“Here are the darts. Aim for the eyes of the grey, fluffy kitten.”
这只是一张画
It’s just a bit of paper
但在某种程度上
but in some way, you feel that you might,
有一种特殊的无法言喻的感觉
in a peculiar way you can’t quite explain,
你可能会觉得你伤害到了这只毛茸茸的小猫
be hurting some fluffy kitten somehow, somewhere.
我并不是想告诉你们从1377年或什么时候开始
I’m not suggesting to you that in the year 1377 or any time onwards,
人们会觉得 哇
people felt, “Oh!
他们在动 他们是真的 他们能听到我说什么
“They’re moving, they’re real, they can hear me,”
但是用这个毛茸茸的灰色小猫的例子
but with the same kind of grey, fluffy kitten analogy,
我想告诉大家
I am suggesting to you that there is a very strong attachment
在事物的表象和它本身之间是存在强大关联的
between a representation and the thing itself.
我们现在相当安静地在国家艺术馆里观赏着
We’re now in the National Gallery having a look quite quietly,
思考着美学和黄金
thinking about aesthetics and gold
和由最基础的色素创造出来的颜色
and colours made from ground pigment,
但我们必须记住的是
but what we must remember is
这幅画最初是想要被视为什么的
how this was originally intended to be seen.
我试图把我的最初想法集♥合♥在一起
I’ve tried to pool together my first thoughts.
我并不是要批评什么
I don’t mean this to be a criticism…
我不知道 我挺很热衷于批判的
I don’t know, I’m quite keen on criticism.
我也只是想开放一点
I’m also just trying to be very open here.
我想的是 作为一个组织
I think what comes out of it is that as an organisation,
我想这可能是我在这的原因之一
I suppose that’s probably a bit why I’m here,
当我们开论♥坛♥会一起讨论这些事情的时候
our public voice is quite weakly represented
群众的声音是很微弱的
when we have forums together and we’re talking about things.
今早 我尝试着把它们归个类
I kind of tried to chunk that up this morning
看看怎么去证明它
of how does that manifest itself.
其实很简单
One is that just quite simply
我很惊讶的是 我们并没有
I still find it quite amazing that we don’t really talk much
较多地谈论关于公众和游客的事
about the public and the visitors,
但是我并不认为当提到
but actually I don’t think that when it comes to
我们在一些讨论会上说到的内容时
a lot of what we talk about in some of our meetings
实际上是谈论关于和公众交流的事
that actually are talking about communications out to the public,
我们并没有把重点放在这五百二十万人
we’re not necessarily focusing on those 5.2 million people
和他们的需求上 像我认为我们应该也能够做到的那么多
and their needs as much as I think we could be and should be.
我想我们可以培养出一种文化
It would be good to think that we could foster a culture
让我们更多去关注公众需求
where we focus a little bit more on what are our public needs
以及如何去满足那些需求 -是的
and how are we meeting them. – Yeah.
我一直在想 我的下一个图解
I was thinking, my next little diagram –
这都是凌晨3点
this was all three o’clock in the morning,
意识仪式之类之类的
rites of consciousness stuff –
我在想 如果我们是国家艺术馆
I was thinking if we are the National Gallery
我们讨论心目中的大♥师♥
and we are talking about old masters at our heart
我们是
and we are a number of things –
我们是所有藏品有关的保存 研究 保留
we’re conservation, research, preservation,
遗产 及其的教育
heritage all around the collection and education of it…
我们同时也算一个旅游景点
We are also a visitor attraction
虽然知道这个词挺可怕的 但我们确实是啊
and I know that word’s horrid but we are also that.
如果我们的任务是让大♥师♥们
If our mission is to make our old masters
更多的围绕现代文化生活
more central to modern cultural life,
我认为 同样作为中心
I think there needs to be more of that dialogue around the audience
观众需要更多的交流 我们仍然以艺术为中心
as the centre as well. Still having art at the centre
但那就好像另一个
but it’s like another bubble that comes off
我们正在寻找的观众的需求与对话的泡影
where we’re looking at those audience needs and the conversations,
我们需要讨论一下人们
we’ll talk about how are people reacting with us emotionally
因他们的娱乐 智力
in terms of their pleasure, in terms of intellectualism,
学术方面
in terms of the academic side,
以及精神上的自我发展而对我们做出的情绪化反馈
in terms of self-development spiritually…
这些类型的对话有助于我们通知决策
Those kind of conversations can then help inform the decision-making
就像昨天的提香会议做的那样
that we’re doing in meetings like that Titian meeting yesterday.
我现在觉得昨天那会真是太棒了
Now, I thought that meeting yesterday was fantastic
而且效果也很好
and I think the outcome was absolutely right
但我想接下来
but I think going forward,
如果我们能有更多的对话是关于我们的观众
it would be good if we could have more conversation about the audience
他们的需求 以及我们的沟通需要什么样的反馈就更好了
and what their needs are and what our communications need to reflect…
接下来 除了我们要说的艺术
Going forward, alongside what we want to say about the art,
我们还需考虑到
we also need to be thinking the end person
讨论的另一端的人们能够
that’s going to see our communications…
是的 -他们需要什么呢
Yeah. – What are their needs?
我发现在我们开过的会议中 尤其是 一些…
I’ve found some of the meetings that we have, particularly the, sort of…
你知道的 在一些大型会议上
You know, very large meetings
馆长站在那谈论一个话题
where perhaps a curator is standing up and talking about a subject –
它本身非常好 但是需要其他的对话
it’s fantastic but there needs to be the other dialogue
能够继续给这个话题带来后续
that goes on that then carries it on
那样 我们才能不只从我们自己的角度看待
so we’re not just seeing it from what’s our perspective
而是从 我们展示给人们的
but what’s the perspective of the people
他们的角度来看待问题
that are actually going to see what we’re trying to show them,
通过展览和市场宣传之类的
as it were, through our exhibitions and marketing and stuff.
我希望
My hope -、
如果在六月份可以
and if there’s this opportunity to talk about one’s vision going forward
和受托人谈论一下个人未来观点
with the trustees in June –
我希望我们的对话能更集中于
my hope is that we can make that dialogue more central
我们现在所做的以及我们的一些展览会中
to what we’re doing at exec and in some of our exhibition meetings.
就我个人而言 我试图让市场营销和公♥关♥部门的同事
On my side, I’m trying to imbue the marketing and PR side
能后退一步
with more of that stepping back
实实在在地从观众的角度出发
and actually looking at things from the audience point of view.