与安德烈晚餐（1981）

可这面旗子 有某种过于强大的东西
There was something about this that was so powerful…
几乎就是压倒性的
it was almost overwhelming.
它上面甚至有藏教万字（梵文卍）
And it did include the Tibetan swastika.
他在你的旗子上弄了个万字？
He put a swastika in your flag?
不 它是藏教万字 不是纳粹万字
No, it was the Tibetan swastika, not the Nazi swastika.
它是最古老的藏族符号♥之一
It’s one of the most ancient Tibetan symbols.
你知道吗 这旗子就是那么奇怪
And it was just strange, you know?
我把它带回家 因为我那个主意
But I brought it home, because my idea with this flag…
是在我去- 在我去印度之前有的
was that before I left — you know, before I left for India…
我想让几个和我亲近的人 把旗子拿到房♥间和他们一起睡
I wanted several people who were close to me to have this flag in the room for the night…
然后 在早上缝一些东西到上面去
to sleep with it, you know, and then in the morning to sew something into the flag.
所以我把它带去给玛丽娜 我说 “嘿 瞧这个 你觉得怎么样？”
So I took the flag into Marina, and I said, “Hey, look at this. What do you think of this?”
而她说“这是什么鬼东西啊？太可怕了” 我说“它就是面旗子”
And she said, “What is that? That’s awful.” I said, “It’s a flag.”
她又说“我不喜欢它”
And she said, “I don’t like it.”
我说“我打算让你带着它过夜 不知你是否愿意”
I said, “I kind of thought you might like to spend the night with it, you know.”
但她真的觉得这旗子太可怕了
But she really thought the flag was awful.
然后 去印度前 乔姬塔为我准备了一个派对
So then Chiquita threw this party for me before I left for India…
公♥寓♥里满是客人
and the apartment was filled with guests.
乔姬塔忽然说“旗子 旗子 你的旗子呢”
And at one point Chiquita said, “The flag, the flag. Where’s the flag?”
我说“哦 对了 旗子” 于是我拿来它 展开它
And I said, “Oh, yeah. The flag.” And I go and get the flag, and I open it up.
乔姬塔突然脸色苍白 冲出了房♥间吐了
Chiquita goes absolutely white and runs out of the room and vomits.
所以派对只好暂停 之后就散了
So the party just comes to a halt and breaks up.
第二天我又把它给了一位年轻女士
And then the next day I gave it to this young woman…
是原来波兰小组中的一员 现在住在纽约
who’d been in my group in Poland, who was now in New York.
之前发生的事情 我全没跟她说起过
I didn’t tell her anything about any of this.
早上五点钟 她打电♥话♥给我说
At 5:00 in the morning, she called me up and she said…
“我现在就去见你 马上” 我想“哦 天呐”
“I gotta come and see you right away.” I thought, “Oh, God.”
她来了 她说“我看到一些东西- 我看到这旗子有些不好的东西”
She came up, and she said, “I saw things — I saw things around this flag.
“听着 我知道你很顽固 我知道你想带着这玩意走”
“Now, I know you’re stubborn, and I know you want to take this thing with you…
“但我还是建议你 挖个洞把它扔进去
“but if you’d follow my advice, you’d put it in a hole in the ground…
烧了它 埋了它 因为魔鬼就在它里面”
and burn it and cover it with earth, cause the devil’s in it.”
我从没带它走
I never took the flag with me.
实际上 我把旗子给了她 而她-她办了一场法事
In fact, I gave it to her, and, uh, she — she had a ceremony with it…
半年之后 在法国 和几个朋友
six months later, in France, with some friends…
一起把那面旗子烧了
in which, uh, they did burn it.
[笑声] 我的天啊
[Laughing] God.
这真的真的很神奇
That’s really, really amazing.
那 你后来去了印度没有？
So, did you ever go to India?
哦 去了 我-我去了印度 沃利 在春天去的
Oh, yes, I — I went to India in the spring, Wally…
回到家的时候 我感觉一切都不对
and I came back home feeling all wrong.
我是说 我是去过印度 可我只感到自己是个游客
I mean, you know, I’d been to India, and I’d just felt like a tourist.
我什么也没能发现
I’d found nothing.
所以我- 我在长岛 和家里人一起度夏
So I was — I was spending, uh, the summer on Long Island with my family…
我听说苏格兰有这么个社区 叫芬德霍恩
and I heard about this community in Scotland called Findhorn…
那里的人和植物唱歌♥ 说话 冥想
where people sang and talked and meditated with plants.
它的组建者 确切说是几个 中产阶级的英格兰和苏格兰怪人
And it was founded by several rather middle-class English and Scottish eccentrics.
他们有些是知识分子 有些不是
Some of them intellectuals, and some of them not.
我还听说他们在 贫瘠的土壤里耕种
And I’d heard that they’d grown things in soil…
贫瘠到本应该什么都长不出 因为那几乎就是沙滩
that supposedly nothing can grow in, ’cause it’s almost beach soil…
他们还造出了-不是造 是种出了世界上最大的花椰菜
and that they’d built — not built — they’d grown the largest cauliflowers in the world…
还有卷心菜之类
and there are sort of cabbages.
他们还种树 一些根本不可能在英国列岛上生长的树
And they’ve grown trees that can’t grow in the British Isles.
所以我去了那儿 沃利 它真是个神奇的地方
So I went there. I mean, it is an amazing place, Wally.
你看 如果有虫子危害作物
I mean, if there are insects bothering the plants…
那里的人会和虫子们沟通 订下协议
they will talk with the insects and, you know, make an agreement…
他们会另立一小块菜地 专门给虫子吃
by which they’ll set aside a special patch of vegetables just for the insects…
然后虫子们就会不再侵扰主要区域了
and then the insects will leave the main part alone.
喝 – 就是此类的事情
Huh. – Things like that.
他们做的一切都如此美妙
And everything they do they do beautifully.
那里的建筑简直闪闪发光
I mean, the buildings just shine.
比如说 冰箱 火炉 汽车-都有自己的名字
And I mean, for instance, the icebox, the stove, the car– they all have names.
如此你就不会对待海伦 那个冰箱
And since you wouldn’t treat Helen, the icebox…
比对待玛格丽特 你的妻子 少一些尊重
with any less respect than you would Margaret, your wife…
你会保证海伦和玛格丽特一样整洁干净 给予同等的尊重
you know, you make sure that Helen is as clean as Margaret, or treated with equal respect.
[沃利咯咯笑]
[Wally Giggles]
记得当我在那儿的时候 我会去树林里
And when I was there, Wally, I remember being in the woods…
我会看一片叶子 而且会真的看见某种东西
and I would look at a leaf, and I would actually see that thing…
活在树叶里的东西
that is alive in that leaf.
我记得自己穿过树林飞奔 有多快跑多快
And then I remember just running through the woods as fast as I could…
一边爆发出大笑来
with this incredible laugh coming out of me…
在那种状态下 你知道么 笑声与眼泪真的好像融为一体
and really being in that state, you know, where laughter and tears seem to merge.
我是说 它的的确确让我顿悟了
I mean, it absolutely blasted me open.
当我从芬德霍恩出来后 不停地♥产♥生幻觉
When I came out of Findhorn, I was hallucinating nonstop.
我把云彩看成怪物
I was seeing clouds as creatures.
我看到飞机上的人都长着动物的脸
The people on the airplane all had animals’ faces.
我当时正在旅行 就像突然掉入了威廉·布莱克的世界
I mean, I was on a trip. It was like being in a William Blake world suddenly.
万事万物都在膨胀着
Things were exploding.
所以我当即去了贝尔格莱德 因为我想和葛罗托斯基聊聊
So immediately I went to Belgrade, ’cause I wanted to talk to Grotowski.
我们在午夜聚在一起了 在我酒店的房♥间里
Grotowski and I got together at midnight in my hotel room…
我们喝着速溶咖啡 盛咖啡的是我剃须膏的盖子
and we drank instant coffee out of the top of my shaving cream…
我们从午夜一直聊到第二天上午11点
and we talked from midnight until 11:00 the next morning.
天呐 他说什么了？ – 什么也没说！
God. What did he say? – Nothing!
只有我在说话 他一个字也没说
I talked. He didn’t say a word.
这之后-之后我觉得
And –And then I guess really…
最后一次 值得一提的这种体验 发生在秋天
the last big experience of this kind took place that fall.
那是在长岛的蒙塔克
It was out at Montauk on Long Island…
参与的只有9个人 大部分是男人
and there were only about nine of us involved, mostly men.
我们借用了迪克·艾夫登的地♥产♥（即理查德·艾夫登，摄影家） 就在蒙塔克的郊外
And we borrowed Dick Avedon’s property out at Montauk.
那儿的乡村 简直和《呼啸山庄》里的一样
And the country out there is like Heathcliff country.
完全是一片荒凉
It’s absolutely wild.
我们打算干这么件事-
What we wanted to do was we wanted to take, you know —
我们打算赶上万灵节 万圣节
We wanted to take All Souls’ Eve, Halloween…
利用这个特殊的时刻 尝试某种新的东西
and use it as a point of departure for something.
所以 我们每个人都为彼此准备了一些活动
So each one of us prepared some sort of event for the others…
它们都以某种方式符合万灵节的精神
somehow in the spirit of All Souls’ Eve.
而最重大的一个活动 是有三个人
But the biggest event was three of the people…
在每个夜里凌晨时分 都会消失不见
kept disappearing in the middle of the night each night…
我们知道他们有个很不简单的计划
and we knew they were preparing something big…
但搞不清到底是什么
but we didn’t know what.
接着 万圣节的午夜来了 在那些峭壁上 在黯淡的月色里
And midnight on Halloween, under a dark moon, above these cliffs…
所有人都被通知 在悬崖顶端集♥合♥ 然后我们会被带去某处
we were all told to gather at the topmost cliff and that we would be taken somewhere.
我们都去了 我们等啊等啊 夜里非常冷
And we did. And we waited, and it was very, very cold.
然后 他们三个-海伦 比尔 弗莱德 -穿一袭白色出现了
And then the three of them — Helen, Bill and Fred — showed up wearing white.
那是些他们用床单做成的袍子 -看上去有些毛骨悚然 并不好笑
You know, something they’d made out of sheets — looked a little spooky, not funny.
然后 他们把我们带往一所房♥子的地下室 房♥子本身已经烧毁了
And they took us into the basement of this house that had burned down on the property.
在这个废弃的地下室中 摆着一张他们做的 带长凳的桌子
And in this ruined basement, they had set up a table with benches they’d made.
桌子上 放有纸 笔 葡萄酒 和玻璃杯
And on this table they had laid out paper, pencils, wine and glasses.
我们被要求坐在桌旁 写下自己的遗嘱
And we were all asked to sit at the table and to make out our last will and testament.
你明白吗 想想我们对这个世界 或是对最亲近的人
You know, to think about and write down whatever our last words were to the world…
还有什么最后要说的
or to somebody we were very close to.
那可真不是件容易的事
And that’s quite a task.
我想了至少有一个或一个半小时 或许两个小时
I must have been there for about an hour and a half or so, maybe two.
然后 一次一个地 他们会请某个人跟他们走
And then one at a time they would ask one of us to come with them…
而我是最后一个
and I was one of the last.
他们来到我跟前 给我蒙上遮眼布
And they came for me, and they put a blindfold on me…
带我跑过那些田野- 两个人
and they ran me through these fields — two people.
然后带我到了某个制陶窝棚- 一种小棚子
And they’d found a kind of potting shed — you know, a kind of shed, on the grounds…
很小很小的一间屋子 曾经用来放工具的
a little tiny room that had once had tools in it.
他们领我下台阶 到地下室里
And they took me down the steps, into this basement…
整个房♥间充斥着刺眼的白光
and the room was just filled with harsh white light.
然后 他们让我脱♥光♥衣服 把身上值钱的财物都给他们
Then they told me to get undressed and give them all my valuables.
之后 我被放到一张桌子上 他们用海绵 从上往下给我擦洗
Then they put me on a table, and they sponged me down.
当时 我脑中开始不断闪过 死亡集中营和秘密警♥察♥
Well, you know, I just started flashing on-on-on death camps and secret police.
我不知道其他人怎样 反正我是不能自已的痛哭起来
I don’t know what happened to the other people, but I just started to cry uncontrollably.
最后 他们擦完了我的脚 给我拍了张照片 一♥丝♥不♥挂♥的
Uh, then-then they got me to my feet and they took photographs of me, naked.
然后就这么光溜溜的 我再次戴上眼罩 跟他们跑过森林
And then naked, again blindfolded, I was run through these forests…
来到一顶床单做的帐篷里 地上也铺着床单
and we came to a kind of tent made of sheets, with sheets on the ground.
里面全是裸体的人
And there were all these naked bodies…
挤作一团来抵御寒冷
huddling together for warmth against the cold.
他们在这可能已经待了有一个小时了
Must have been left there for about an hour.