与安德烈晚餐（1981）

感谢主给了你生命
and you thank God for your life.
它一遍又一遍地重复自己
And it, uh — It repeats itself over and over again.
后来它变成了我们的主题歌♥
And this became our theme song.
我哪天一定要把这首歌♥放给你听
I really must play this thing for you one day…
因为你绝对无法相信 一群不懂如何唱歌♥的人
because you just can’t believe that a group of people who don’t know how to sing…
能创造如此美丽的东西
could create something so beautiful.
所以 我决定当人们来参加蜂巢时
So, I decided that when the people arrived for the beehive…
我们的组员要已经在那里 在唱这首美丽的歌♥
that our group would already be there singing this very beautiful song…
然后我们可以一遍又一遍地唱它
and that we would simply sing it over and over again.
其中有个人带来了一个很大的泰迪熊
One of the people decided to bring her very large teddy bear, you know.
呵呵 因为她有点担心这样的活动
Well, she’s a little afraid of this event.
有的人想带条床单
And somebody wanted to bring a — a sheet.
还有个人想带一大碗水
And somebody else wanted to bring a large bowl of water…
以防人们中暑或者口渴
in case people got hot or thirsty.
还有人建议我们点上蜡烛
And somebody suggested that we have candles —
不要人造光 而要烛光
that there be no artificial light, but candlelight.
我还记得大家如何为这个晚上做准备
And I remember watching people preparing for this evening.
当然 没有人化妆 也没有戏服
Of course, there was no makeup, and there were no costumes…
但它实际上和人们准备一场演出是一模一样的
but it was exactly the way that people prepare for a performance.
大家脱下他们的首饰和手表
You know, people sort of taking off their jewelry and their watches…
把它们都堆好 确保一切安全
and stowing it away and making sure it’s all secure.
人们陆续抵达 就和他们去去剧院看戏时一样
And then slowly people arrived, the way they would arrive at the theater–
有独自来的 有结伴的 十个的 十五个的 什么样的都有
in ones and twos and 10s and 15s and what have you.
当时我和组员们就坐在那 唱那首美丽的歌♥
And we were just sitting there, and we were singing this very beautiful song.
人们开始坐过来 开始跟着学它
And people started to sit with us and started to learn the song.
当然 在任何的表演和即兴演出中
Now, there is, of course, as in any performance or improvisation…
当它就要变的无聊时你会有预感
Instinct for when things are gonna get boring.
所以 在某些临界点——一个或一个半小时以后
So, at a certain point — It may have taken an hour to get there, an hour and a half–
我突然抓住泰迪熊 把它扔向空中
I suddenly grabbed this teddy bear and threw it in the air…
140或130个人就这么炸开了
at which 140 or 130 people suddenly exploded.
你知道的 就像杰克逊·波洛克（抽象派画家）的画一样
You know, it was like a — a Jackson Pollack painting, you know.
人们从刚才唱歌♥的那个紧密小圈子中炸开来
Human beings exploded out of this tight little circle that was singing the song.
一眨眼就已经有两个圈子在跳舞了
And before I knew it, there were two circles, dancing, you know —
一个顺时针跳 另一个逆时针跳
one dancing clockwise, the other dancing counterclockwise…
以一种主要从腰下来的节奏
with this rhythm mostly from the waist down.
也就是说 和美洲印第安人跳的舞一样 有重击 有持续的节奏
In other words, like an American Indian dance, with this thumping, persistent rhythm.
[人们的笑声]
[People Chuckling]
如今 人们很容易明白 我们在讨论的是集体迷失
Now, you could easily see, ’cause we’re talking about group trance…
在这种活动和希♥特♥勒♥的纽伦堡集♥会♥间
where the line between something like this and something like Hitler’s Nuremberg rallies…
只有一条很细小很细小的界线
is, in a way, a very thin line.
不管怎么说 在一个小时这种狂野的 迷乱的舞蹈后
Anyway, after about an hour of this wild, hypnotic dancing…
葛罗托斯基和我发现 我们正相对而坐 在整个舞蹈的中心
Grotowski and I found ourselves sitting opposite each other in the middle of this whole thing.
于是我们把泰迪熊互相扔来扔去
And we threw the teddy bear back and forth.
你知道的 在某种意义上 你可以说它很幼稚
You know, on one level, you could say this is childish.
然后我突然的 让泰迪熊贴在我的胸上
And I gave the teddy bear suck, suddenly, at my breast.
再把它扔给葛罗托斯基 他也把它贴在胸口
And then I threw the teddy bear to him, and he gave it suck at his breast.
然后泰迪熊再次被扔向空中
And then the teddy bear was thrown up into the air again…
人群又一次爆发了 它的形状变成了…某种东西
at which there was another explosion of form into… something.
它们-它们像什么呢 你知道吗 这是个-
And these –What was it like? You know, this is the —
它有点儿像万花筒 一个人体万花筒
There’s something like a kaleidoscope, like a human kaleidoscope.
那个夜晚就以万花筒的不断变幻组成
The evening was made up of shiftings of the kaleidoscope.
现在 我所能记起的其它事情
Now, the only other things that I remember…
除了我不断试着去指导这件-
other than constantly trying to guide this thing…
始终关系着运动 节奏 反复和歌♥唱的事
which was always involved with either movement, rhythm, repetition or song —
还有颂唱 因为 呃 组员里的两个人
Or chanting, because, uh, two people in my group…
带来了乐器 一个长笛和一只鼓
had brought musical instruments, a flute and a drum…
当然 它们是宗教乐器
which, of course, are sacred instruments —
除了这些 我能记得 有时候房♥间里的活动会分♥裂♥
was that sometimes the room would break up…
成为6到7个同时在进行的不同活动
into six or seven different things going on at once.
你知道吗 6到7个各不相同的即兴创作
You know, six or seven different improvisations…
它们每一个看上去都以某种方式相互关联
all of which seemed, in some way, related to each other.
就像一张壮观的蜘蛛网
It was — It was like a magnificent cobweb.
有一个瞬间 我发现葛罗托斯基在小组中♥央♥
And at one point, I noticed that Grotowski was at the center of one group…
蜷缩在很多蜡烛旁边 这些蜡烛是人们先前收到一起的
huddled around a bunch of candles that they’d gathered together.
他就像一个被火焰迷住的小孩
And like a little child fascinated by fire…
我看到他把手放到火舌中 并且就留在那不动了
I saw that he had his hand right in the flame and was holding it there.
当我走近他的小组 我想知道自己能不能做到
And as I approached his group, I wondered if I could do it.
我把左手伸进火舌 发现我想保持多久都可以
I put my left hand in the flame and I found I could hold it there for as long as I liked…
既没有烧伤 也没有疼痛
and there was no burn and no pain.
但当我试图把右手伸进去时 我坚持不了哪怕一秒钟
But when I tried to put my right hand in the flame, I couldn’t hold it there for a second.
所以葛罗托斯基说 如果觉得烫 试着改变自己身上一些小小的地方
So Grotowski said, “If it burns, try to change some little thing in yourself.”
然后我试着这样做 但没效果
And I tried to do that. Didn’t work.
然后我记得有一个非常非常美丽的队列 有床单的队列
Then I remember a very, very beautiful procession with the sheet…
床单下裹着一个人
and there was somebody being carried below the sheet.
你知道吗 那床单就像某种圣经里的华盖
You know, the sheet was like some great biblical canopy.
整个小组在房♥间中交织起伏 吟咏着
And the entire group was weaving around the room and chanting.
然后有这么个时候 人们跳起舞
And then at one point, people were dancing…
我当时正和一个姑娘跳
and I was dancing with a girl…
突然间 我们的手开始振动着相互靠拢
and suddenly our hands began vibrating near each other–
就像这样 振动着 振动着
like this –vibrating, vibrating.
于是我们跪下来 我一下子就在她的胳膊中呜咽了
And we went down to our knees, and suddenly I was sobbing in her arms…
而她用胳膊轻轻抱了抱我 然后她也开始哭了
and she was sort of cradling me in her arms, and then she started to cry too.
然后我们-我们拥抱了一会儿
And then we — then we just hugged each other for a moment.
接着 呃 我们重新加入舞蹈
And, uh, then we joined the dance again.
后来到了某个时候 几个小时后
And then at a certain point, hours later…
我们又开始唱圣弗朗西斯之歌♥
we returned to the singing of the song of Saint Francis…
那就是整个蜂巢的结尾
and that was the end of the beehive.
再一次 当它结束后 就和剧院散场时一模一样
And then, again, when it was over, it was just like the theater after a performance.
人们开始戴上耳环和手表
You know, people sort of put on their earrings and their wristwatches…
接着 我和我的组员们去了火车站
and we went off to the railroad station…
在那喝了很多啤酒 吃了顿丰盛的晚饭
to drink a lot of beer and have a good dinner.
哦 还有一个女孩 不是组员之一
Oh, and there was one girl, who wasn’t in our group…
但她就是不愿离开 所以我们带上了她
but who just wouldn’t leave, so we took her along with us.
[咯咯笑]
[Chuckling]
哈
Huh.
天啊 跟我讲讲你和你的小组做的其它事吧
God. Well, tell me some of the other things you did with your group.
好 我记得有次我们在城里
Well– Oh, I remember once when we were in the city…
我们试着去做一次即兴表演 就像我过去在纽约做的那些
We tried doing an improvisation –you know, the kind that I used to do in New York.
呃 所以人都被假定在一架飞机上
Uh, everybody was supposed to be on an airplane…
机长告诉他们引擎出了问题
and they’ve all learned from the pilot there’s something wrong with the motor.
在这次即兴创作中有件很不同寻常的事
But what was unusual about this improvisation…
两个人在参与的过程中 恋爱了
was that two people who participated in it… fell in love.
实际上他们现在已经结婚了
They’ve, in fact, married.
当我们正在- 是的 出于恐惧
And when we were — Yeah, out of fear…
害怕飞机坠落 他们相爱了
of being on this plane, they fell in love…
他们真的觉得自己随时都会死
thinking they were going to die at any moment.
当我们去森林时 这一对情侣不见了
And when we went to the forest, these two disappeared…
因为他们对整个实验理解的如此透彻
because they understood the — the experiment so well…
所以他们明白单独去森林更重要
that they realized that to go off together in the forest was much more important…
比所有小组集体做的实验都重要的多
than any kind of experiment the group could do as a whole.
然后 呃 到那周过了一半时
So, uh, about halfway through the week…
我们无意中闯进森林里的一片空地
we stumbled into a clearing in the forest…
发现他们正相拥而眠 睡的很熟
and the two of them were fast asleep in each other’s arms.
那时天刚破晓 我们采来野花放到他们身上
It was around dawn, and we put flowers on them…
好让他们知道我们来过 然后我们悄悄走了
to let them know we’d been there, and then we crept away.
到了在森林的最后一天时 他们俩出现了
And then on the last day of our stay in the forest, these two showed up…
他们和我握手 十分感谢我
and they shook me by my hands, and they thanked me very much…
因为我给了他们如此美好的工作 就是这样
for the wonderful work they’d been able to do, you see.
[笑声] – 他们能理解整件事意义何在
[Laughs] – They understood what it was about.
你看 这必然就指向了它关于什么这个问题
I mean, that, of course, poses the question of what was it about.
它某种意义上有关生活
But it has –has something to do with living.
到了最后一天
And then on the final day of our stay in the forest…
沃利 整个小组为我做了件如此美妙的事
the whole group did something so wonderful for me, Wally.
他们安排了一个仪式-一次洗礼 给我的
They arranged a christening — a baptism — for me.
他们在城♥堡♥里插满了鲜花
And they filled the castle with flowers.
还有那如神迹般的光
And it was just a miracle of light…
因为他们实实在在点了上百支蜡烛和火把
because they had literally set up hundreds of candles and torches.
即使是教堂 也没有比这更美的
I mean, no church could have looked more beautiful.
仪式很简短 有一个人扮演我的教母
There was a simple ceremony, and one of them played the role of my godmother…
另一个人扮演我的教父
and another played the role of my godfather.