与安德烈晚餐（1981）

这种影响又是潜移默化的？
that somehow we’re just not aware of?
我是说 我刚想到 呃 去年圣诞节
I mean, you know, I was thinking, um, last Christmas…
黛比和我收到一份礼物 一条电热毯
Debby and I were given an electric blanket.
我敢说这是一个了不起的进步
I can tell you that it is just such a marvelous advance…
对于我们旧的生活方式 它简直棒极了 – [安德烈咯咯笑]
over our old way of life, and it is just great. – [Andre Chuckling]
但是 有了电热毯以后 生活变的不同于以往
But, uh, it is quite different from not having an electric blanket…
所以我有时候会好奇 它给我带来的是什么？
and I sometimes sort of wonder, well, what is it doing to me?
你看 我有种感觉 我睡眠的方式不再相同了
I mean, I sort of feel, uh, I’m not sleeping quite in the same way.
[咯咯笑] 嗯 你当然不会了
[Chuckles] No, you wouldn’t be.
而且 我做的梦也不一样了
I mean, uh, and my dreams are sort of different…
早上起床时 我也感到有所变化
and I feel a little bit different when I get up in the morning.
我是无论如何也不会用电热毯的
I wouldn’t put an electric blanket on for anything.
首先 我担心触电 是的 我不信任科技
First, I’d be worried I might get electrocuted. No, I don’t trust technology.
但是你看 最主要的是 沃利 我认为它给你的那种舒适
But I mean, the main thing, Wally, is that I think that that kind of comfort…
很直接地导致你和现实的割裂
just separates you from reality in a very direct way.
你是说- – 我是说 如果你没有电热毯
You mean — – I mean, if you don’t have that electric blanket…
你的公♥寓♥就非常冷 所以不得不盖上另一条毯子
and your apartment is cold and you need to put on another blanket…
或者从衣橱里翻出一堆外套 搭在你的毯子上
or go into the closet and pile up coats on top of the blankets you have…
这样 你就知道天气确实冷
well, then you know it’s cold.
于是这导致了一系列的伴随事件
And that sets up a link of things.
你会产生同情- 你身边的那个人冷吗？
You have compassion for the per– Well, is the person next to you cold?
世界上还有其他人在忍♥受寒冷吗？
Are there other people in the world who are cold?
多冷的晚上啊！ 我喜欢寒冷
What a cold night! I like the cold.
天啊 我从未意识到 我不需要什么毯子 冷是很有意思的事
My God, I never realized. I don’t want a blanket. It’s fun being cold.
我会挤过来 和你挨得更近 因为很冷
I can snuggle up against you even more because it’s cold.
你会发生各种各样的事
All sorts of things occur to you.
一旦打开那条电热毯 就像吞下了镇静剂
Turn on that electric blanket, and it’s like taking a tranquilizer…
或是像看电视看傻了
or it’s like being lobotomized by watching television.
我觉得你又掉进了那个幻想世界里
I think you enter the dream world again.
你看 沃利 这意味着什么 我们活在一个
I mean, what does it do to us, Wally, living in an environment…
连宏大如季节 或冬天 或寒冷
where something as massive as the seasons, or winter, or cold…
都影响不到我们的环境中？
don’t in any way affect us?
你看 我们毕竟只是动物
I mean, we’re animals, after all.
这意味着什么？
I mean, what does that mean?
我想 这意味着我们不再生活于 太阳底下
I think that means that instead of living under the sun…
或是月亮 天空 星辰之下
and the moon and the sky and the stars…
我们生活在一个 由我们一手打造的梦幻世界里
we’re living in a fantasy world of our own making.
对 但我要说 安德烈 我绝对不会 扔了我的电热毯的
Yeah, but I mean, I would never give up my electric blanket, Andre.
因为纽约的冬天就是这么冷
I mean, because New York is cold in the winter.
你看 我的公♥寓♥很冷 那是个很艰苦的环境
I mean, our apartment is cold. It’s a difficult environment.
我们的生活本来就够难的了
I mean, our lives are tough enough as it is.
我绝不会试着去摆脱那些 为数不多能提供宽慰和舒适的东西
I’m not looking for ways to get rid of the few things that provide relief and comfort.
相反的 我一直在寻求更多的舒适
I mean, on the contrary, I’m looking for more comfort…
因为 呃 这个世界是如此粗砺
because, uh, the world is very abrasive.
你看 呃 我在试着保护自己
I mean, uh, I’m trying to protect myself…
因为 说真的 放眼望去 处处可见需要避免的磨难
because, really, there are these abrasive beatings to be avoided everywhere you look.
可是 沃利 难道你-难道你看不出 这种舒适会很危险么？
But, Wally, don’t you — don’t you see that comfort can be dangerous?
我是说 你喜欢舒适 我也喜欢舒适
I mean, you like to be comfortable, and I like to be comfortable too…
可是舒适会把你哄骗进 一种危险的麻醉中
but comfort can lull you into a dangerous tranquillity.
我母亲认识这样一位女人 哈特菲尔德女士
I mean, my mother knew a woman, Lady Hatfield…
她曾是世上最富有的女人之一
who was one of the richest women in the world…
可她却死于饥饿 因为她只愿意吃鸡肉
and she died of starvation because all she would eat was chicken.
你看 她只爱吃鸡肉 沃利 所以她也只吃这个
I mean, she just liked chicken, Wally, and that was all she would eat.
而实际上 她的身体已经在饿死了 她却毫不知情
And actually her body was starving, but she didn’t know it…
因为她吃鸡肉吃得心满意足 最后她终于死了
’cause she was quite happy eating her chicken, and so she finally died.
看 我真心认为 我们现在都像哈特菲尔德女士
See, I honestly believe that we’re all like Lady Hatfield now.
我们享受着美妙舒适的生活 我们有电热毯盖 有鸡肉吃
We’re having a lovely, comfortable time with our electric blankets and our chicken…
与此同时我们在饿死 因为我们与真实的联♥系♥已是如此割裂
and meanwhile we’re starving because we’re so cut off from contact with reality…
以至于吃不到任何真正的粮食 因为我们看不见这个世界
that we’re not getting any real sustenance, ’cause we don’t see the world.
我们看不见自己
We don’t see ourselves.
也看不见自己的行为 是如何影响他人的
We don’t see how our actions affect other people.
你读过马丁·布伯的书吗（德国宗教哲学家） 《论哈西德主义》?
Have you read Martin Buber’s book On Hasidism?
没有 – 好 有这样一种关于生命的观点
No. – Well, here’s a view of life.
你看 他谈到 在哈西德派犹太人的信仰中
I mean, he talks about the belief of the Hasidic Jews…
万物皆有灵性
that there are spirits chained in everything.
在你体中束缚着灵性 在我体中束缚着灵性
There are spirits chained in you. There are spirits chained in me.
在这张桌子里 也束缚着灵性
Well, there are spirits chained in this table.
有一种谓之祷告的行为 能把这些被束缚的 胚胎式的灵性释放出来
And that prayer is the action of liberating these enchained embryo-like spirits…
我们生命中的每个举动
and that every action of ours in life…
不论是 工作 或做♥爱♥
whether it’s, uh, doing business, or making love…
或是一起吃晚饭 无论什么-
or having dinner together, or whatever–
我们的每个举动 都应该是一次祷告
that every action of ours should be a prayer…
是大千世界中的一次圣礼
a sacrament in the world.
你觉得我们是这样生活的吗？
Now, do you think we’re living like that?
为什么你不这样觉得？
Why do you think we’re not living like that?
我认为 这是由于 如果我们允许自己 看清我们每天所做之事
I think it’s because if we allowed ourselves to see what we do every day…
我们可能会觉得恶心极了
we might just find it too nauseating.
我是说 瞧我们对待他人的方式
I mean, the way we treat other people.
你知道吗 每一天 我都要好几次走进我的公♥寓♥大楼
You know, every day, several times a day, I walk into my apartment building.
门卫叫我格里高利先生 我叫他吉米
The doorman calls me Mr. Gregory, and I call him Jimmy.
好嘛 这种称谓方式
Already, what’s the difference between that…
和蓄奴的南方种植园主 有什么两样？
and the Southern plantation owner who’s got slaves?
你看 我认为在那个时刻 发生了一种谋杀行为
You see, I think that an act of murder is committed in that moment…
就在我走进那栋大楼的时刻
when I walk into that building.
因为这是一个有尊严 有智慧的男人- 一个和我一般年纪的男人-
Because here’s a dignified, intelligent man — a man of my own age —
当我叫他吉米时 他就成了个小屁孩 我则是个成人
and when I call him Jimmy, then he becomes a child, and I’m an adult…
仅仅因为我有钱住在这大楼里
because I can buy my way into the building.
对 没错
Right. That’s right.
我想说 天啊 当我还是个拉丁文老师时
I mean, my God, when I was a Latin teacher…
我想说 人们对待我-
I mean, people used to treat me —
呃 你知道 如果我去参加一个聚会
I mean, uh, you know, if I would go to a party…
邀请的都是专业人士或搞文学的
of professional or literary people…
我是说 我会被当做 呃 选个最好听的说法就是
I mean, I was just treated, uh, in the nicest sense of the word…
像条狗一样
uh, like a dog.
我的意思是 本来没有任何问题
I mean, in other words, there was no question…
我完全能在平等的基础上 和别人交谈
of my being able to participate on an equal basis in a conversation with people.
你看 我会偶尔和人们聊天
I mean, you know, I’d occasionally have conversations with people…
可之后 呃 当他们问起我是做什么的
but then, uh, when they asked what I did…
这一般是在聊了五分钟以后
which would always happen after about five minutes…
你知道么 他们的脸-
uh, you know, their faces —
即便他们正和我相谈甚欢 甚至正在跟我调情 不管是怎样-
Even if they were enjoying the conversation, or they were flirting with me, or whatever it was —
他们的脸部表情 顿时就像一道吊闸放了下来
their faces would just have that expression just like the portcullis crashing down.
你知道的 就像那些中世纪的大门 他们转身就走
You know, those medieval gates. They would just walk away.
我是说 我真的活得像条狗
I mean, I literally lived like a dog.
还有 呃 当黛比 做秘书那会儿 你知道吗
And I mean, uh, when Debby was working as a secretary, you know…
如果她告诉别人她的工作 他们就直接疯了
if she would tell people what she did, they would just go insane.
那就好像 她说的是
I mean, it would be just as if she’d said, uh…
“哦 我最近一直在服无期徒刑中 因为谋杀儿童”
“Oh, well, I’ve been serving a life sentence recently, uh, for child murdering.”
天啊 你知道 当你说到 我们对他人的态度时
I mean, my God, you know, when you talk about our attitudes toward other people…
你看 我觉得我自己
I mean, I think of myself…
是个非常正派的好人
as just a very decent, good person, you know…
因为我觉得自己相当友善地
just because I think I’m reasonably friendly…
对待我每天遇到的大多数人
to most of the people I happen to meet every day.
我是说 我看待自己的态度挺自以为是
I mean, I really think of myself quite smugly.
我觉得自己是个挺不错的好人儿
I just think I’m a perfectly nice guy, uh, you know…
只要我把全部世界想作
so long as I think of the world as consisting of, you know…
只由一小圈朋友组成
just the small circle of the people that I know as friends…
或是由那些涉及 我们小小的爱好的人-
or the few people that we know in this little world of our little hobbies —
戏剧啊 或者别的什么
the theater or whatever it is.
我真的对自己颇为满意 我就是这么安身乐命
And I’m really quite self-satisfied. I’m just quite happy with myself.
我对自己没什么可抱怨的
I just have no complaint about myself.
我是说 你不得不承认
I mean, you know, let’s face it.
外面还有一个广袤的世界 是我从未想及的
I mean, there’s a whole enormous world out there that I just don’t ever think about.
在那个世界里该怎样生活 当然就不关我的事了
I certainly don’t take responsibility for how I’ve lived in that world.
我是说 如果我真的去 正视事实
I mean, you know, if I were actually to sort of confront the fact…
我会发现自己正和
that I’m sort of sharing this stage…
和非洲某处某个要饿死的人 共享这个舞台
with-with-with this starving person in Africa somewhere…
那样 我就不能自我感觉良好了
well, I wouldn’t feel so great about myself.
所以我很自然就-我就把那些人 都请出脑子
So naturally I just — I just blot all those people right out of my perception.
所以 当然了- 当然我始终忽略了
So, of course — of course, I’m ignoring…