再现康宁汉（2019）

and we’re all like different colors.
有时候他想要某种颜色，而其他时候，他不想
And he wants some colors, and other times, he doesn’t.
我认为舞团内部有一种强烈的爱，
I think there’s a great sense of love
一种人与人之间的爱，呃……
within the company, one for the other, and, uh…
但是康宁汉无法坦诚表达这种感觉……，
Merce isn’t able to express that… openly,
但过一会儿你就会感觉到他的爱
but after a while you sense it.
他从不直接表达吗？
He never expresses it openly?
几乎不会……不。
Not really… no.
旧金山
San Francisco.
从黄昏到黎明♪
From dusk till dawn ♪
♪ 我有另一个幻想的世界… T
♪ I’ve got another world Of delusion… T
“凛冬寒枝”的总体的思路是黑暗
In “Winterbranch,” the general idea was darkness.
– 一切都是关于暴♥力♥。- 我很好奇
– It was all about violence. – I’m interested
你说这段舞蹈关于暴♥力♥的
to hear you say it was about violence
我以为，总的来说，
because I think, on the whole,
你不喜欢解释你的舞蹈
you don’t like these interpretations.
是这样的，这件作品由各种元素组合而成
You see, this piece by the combination of the elements
最终诞生了这场关于暴♥力♥的表演，
produces this violent display,
但它所传达出的那种暴♥力♥的体验
but the kind of violence it produces
对每个观众来说都是特别的。
is special to each spectator.
有人看到了种族骚乱，有人看到了原♥子♥弹♥，有人看到了集中营，
One was race riots, and one was atomic bomb, and one was concentration camps,
还有更多别的东西
and on and on.
我们在纽约收到的反应是最激烈的
The most violent reaction we received from it was New York.
那时候美国还没有发生大量暴♥力♥事件
It was before there was a great deal of violence in the United States.
如果今天我们再演这支舞，
And now we do it and people no longer take it
人们不会觉得它很暴♥力♥，因为他们知道
as being violent because they know
当他们在离开剧院去到街上，甚至就在他们旁边的座位上，
there might be violence when they go out in the street
都可能会出现更加暴♥力♥的行为。
or even in the seat next to them.
现在，谈谈你刚结束的世界巡回演出吧
Now, this world tour that you just came back from, tell us about it.
我们的演出从斯特拉斯堡开始，到东京结束。
Well, we started in Strasbourg and we ended in Tokyo.
中间经过了巴黎、威尼斯、维也纳和德国的一些城市，
And in between was Paris and Venice and Vienna and cities in Germany,
我们还在伦敦和斯德哥尔摩呆了一个月。
and a month in London and Stockholm.
然后我们去了波兰，还有捷克斯洛伐克。
Then we went to Poland, and then we went to Czechoslovakia.
我们是第一批去那里的西方舞者。
We were the first Western dancers to come there.
我们在一个 3000 人的大厅里表演
And we played in a hall with 3000 people.
但是你的表演有着如此大的争议，
But you arouse such controversy that all audiences
我想观众对你的反应大不相同，不是吗，莫斯？
don’t greet you the same way, do they, Merce?
你怎么知道观众喜欢什么？
How do you say that what was the audience like?
观众中的每个人都是不同的。
Everybody in the audience is different.
他们可能都不喜欢它。
They may all dislike it.
但是其中的原因也是不同的
Dislike it for different reasons.
别放音乐了！
No more music!
把音乐停下！
Stop music!
我有一种对世界的看法，
I’ve got in my mind a kind of point of view of the world,
我看到有一种箭在不断向前飞，
and I see a kind of arrow advancing,
我看到伦勃朗在做一些事情，
and I see Rembrandt’s doing something,
米开朗基罗在做一些事情，
Michelangelo’s doing something,
然后约翰凯奇做了一些事情。
and then John Cage did something.
于是我当然想更进一步，这是很自然的
I want to go further, of course. It’s natural.
这是一种文艺复兴的观点，
This is Renaissance point of view,
一种欧洲人的观点
a European point of view,
认为一切都是线性的
that everything’s going in a single line.
但是我们并不在一条线上
And we’re not going in a single line.
– 我们在一个平面上。 – 是的…
– We’re in a field. – Yeah…
您也可以进入这个平面。
And you can also enter into the field.
我们在伦敦加场演出
We were held over in London.
– 对 – 不知怎么的，
– Yes. – Somehow,
默斯搞砸了，于是英国人很喜欢我们。
Merce screwed up, and they liked us.
这差点毁了我们的名声！
Almost ruined our reputation!
来自印度艾哈迈达巴德的萨拉巴伊先生
Mr. Sarabhai from Ahmadabad in India,
在观看了康宁汉舞团的表演后，
after seeing a performance by the Cunningham Company,
问默斯，他的舞蹈在美国是不是很流行
asked Merce whether his dancing was popular in the United States.
默斯说，他的舞蹈主要在大学和学院演出
Merce explained that programs were given principally in universities and colleges.
萨拉巴伊先生说：“我不是这个意思。”
Mr. Sarabhai said,”That isn’t what I mean.”
我是想问，人们在饭后会跳你的舞吗？”
Do people do it after dinner?”
天啊。
Oh, God.
与同一个团队的20个人在一起相处六个月是很困难的
Six months with the same group of 20 people is hard.
当鲍勃离开的时候，
Anyway, when Bob left, this was a time
正是默斯和舞者之间的沟通
when communication was particularly poor
特别糟糕的时候
between dancers and Merce.
我们有点害怕未来会发生什么事情，
We were kind of scared of what was going on,
因为默斯非常沮丧
because Merce was very distressed
他感到有责任对整个事情负责，
and had the responsibility of the whole thing,
但同时他也一直在继续完美的表演
and was dancing gorgeously the whole time.
哦，真漂亮， 真的。
Oh, it’s beautiful. It really is.
哦！ 它是无限的，因为它与天空相交融
Oh! It’s infinite because it goes in with the sky.
哦，太棒了。
Oh, it is fantastic.
这家伟大的舞团的优势之一
One of the strengths of this great company
是它有能力吸引
is its ability to draw to itself
顶级视觉艺术家和音乐家加入自己
as full-time collaborators top visual and musical artists,
比如凯奇、沃霍尔、劳森伯格和贾斯珀·约翰斯。
like Cage, Warhol, Rauschenberg and Jasper Johns.
约翰斯先生在对服装进行最后的润色
Mr. Johns cuts the finishing touches into the costumes,
安迪沃霍尔设计的银色枕头
and Andy Warhol’s silver pillows
在舞台上漫游，像云一样寻找自己的家
wander the stage cloud-like, looking for a home.
你认为你的作品前卫吗？
Do you consider your work avant-garde?
嗯，我从不评价我自己。
Well, I never use the word about myself.
但你会说你的舞蹈是全新的
But you would then say that yours is new dance.
你会如何描述它？
How would you describe it?
嗯，不，我不描述它，我只是去做
Well, no, I don’t describe it. I do it.
跟我一起做，向右，向左，向右，向左
Do it with me. Step right, left, right, left.
哒，哒，注意腿，还有背，向上，向下
Bah, bah. Leg,back, turn up, down.
一，四，七，八
One, four, seven, eight.
三，四，六
Three, four, six.
亲爱的，我所做的任何事情都可能是错误的。
Sweetie, anything I’mdoing is probably wrong.
不，这没什么
No, it’s nothing.
还有一、二、三、一、二、三、
And one, two,three, one, two, three,
四、五、六、七、八、九，
four, five, six,seven, eight, nine,
10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
17, 18, 19, 22.
五，六，七，八，九，
Five, six, seven, eight, nine,
10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
17, 18, 19, 23.
六，七，八，九，
Six, seven, eight, nine,
10, 11, 12, 1314, 15, 16, 17,
18、19、24。
五，六，七，八，九，
Five, six, seven, eight, nine,
10, 11, 12, 13, 14,15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 25.
五，六，七，八，九，
Five, six, seven, eight, nine,
10, 11, 12, 13, 14,
15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 26.
五，六，七，八，九，
Five, six, seven, eight, nine,
10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
17、18、19、20，停下，感觉还行吗？
17, 18, 19, 20, stop. All right?
有时我认为那些舞者，
Sometimes I think the urge to communicate
有一种十分强烈的与你更直接交流的冲动
more directly with you is fairly strong in the dancers,
– 但他们把它控制住了。- 是的。
– but they hold it back.- Yes.
这让他们陷入了某种困境之中
Which puts them intosome kind of a conflict.
他们必须得自己处理这种情况，
They have to deal with the situation,
他们必须自己想办法
and they have to figure so much out for themselves.
等一下，嗯
Excuse me. Um.
你刚才说的就是我在打赌的东西，哈哈
I think that’s what I gamble on. Heh.
-你在赌什么？- 哦，对
-What you gamble on? -Yes, yes.
我赌事情总会朝着好的方向
That is, it’s toward the good
而不是坏的方向发展，嘿嘿嘿。
rather than the bad, heh-heh-heh.
我知道事情并不总是这样。
I know that doesn’t always work.
呃…
Uh…
但我宁可相信我赌赢的次数会更多
But I rather think it works more times than it doesn’t.
就是说，我认为需要把人放在
That is, by putting somebody in a situation
必须对某事做出决定的情况下，
where they have to make a decision about something,
这就是意义所在，
is what it amounts to, rather than
而不是依赖于一种，比如说
being dependent upon a kind of
其他人来告诉你，现在你这样做，然后你这样做，
now you do this, then you do this,
然后这样做，然后再这样做。
and then you do this, and then you do this.
对不起，我得上楼了。
Excuse me, I must go upstairs.
我们了解了许多
Aware of the many activities
与康宁汉舞蹈基金会有关的事情，